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The Marshall Protocol Study Site > MEMBER DISCUSSION > Public Questions and Discussion > Why does body allow high levels of 25-d to circullate if it is immunosupressive ?


Why does body allow high levels of 25-d to circullate if it is immunosupressive ?
 Moderated by: Dr Trevor Marshall  

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wrotek
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25th, 2012 12:13

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?



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Dr Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25th, 2012 12:38

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Where are the high levels going to come from, Wrotek?
If you look at my BioEssay from 2008, I cite studies of relatively untouched populations showing that a 25-D level in the teens is pretty normal. That is not above the 20-25ng/ml immunosuppression threshold. Now, South Indian fishermen who eat fish and are in the sun all day on their boats, can have 25-D levels a lot higher. But they usually don't live to a ripe old age.
 
http://TrevorMarshall.com/BioEssays-Feb08-Marshall-Preprint.pdf
 

wrotek
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25th, 2012 12:45

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Could there be  a way for bacteria to increase levels of 25-D  ?

Shouldn't  25-d - a very important metabolite, be tightly controlled by the body? We know, that in our diseases, it is converted into 1.25-D more rapidly, so 25-d drops faster than in normal people.


Last edited on Sat Feb 25th, 2012 12:46 by wrotek



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Cynthia S
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25th, 2012 16:03

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wrotek wrote: Could there be  a way for bacteria to increase levels of 25-D  ?


Hmm, this seems to be something to ponder.  Never thought of it.  I guess one would need to compare the conversion, of the D precursor and the vit D taken by mouth, to 25D in the blood, for the case of really healthy people and those that are well into TH1 disease, to see if there is a difference.

Do we have any idea of the conversion ratios for these in either population?

Cynthia



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MP start 10/08 (no breaks),Spondylitis'97,early Diverticulosis'98,early AMD'08,Calcium anomaly'95,TypeII Diabetes(?)'02,Degenerative hip disease'12, 25D=8.6ng/mL 1/14(preMP 125D/25D=47/43)My progress: http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum30/13911.html
Dr Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25th, 2012 21:54

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Wrotek,
In my BioEssay I explained how the values of 25-D and 1,25-D are regulated. Sure the bacteria might affect them, but also the diseased human metabolism would affect hem too (probably more). Please take a look at figure 1.

wrotek
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25th, 2012 23:58

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Yes, I am familiar with figure 1.



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Russ
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2012 02:55

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wrotek wrote: Could there be  a way for bacteria to increase levels of 25-D  ?


This is from the MPKB.  Not sure if it is still thought to be true.

http://mpkb.org/home/tests/25d
  • Yeast may be able to produce a 25-D precursor – Patients who have large yeast overgrowth such as Candida may have elevated levels of 25-D as Candida produces ergosterol, a Vitamin D2 precursor.12 13 If this is the case, one would expect a large D2 contribution to total 25-D. This could be assessed if the test is broken down in this fashion, which it not always is.

I have found elevated levels of 25-D in compliant patients. It is usually due to an intestinal Candida overgrowth or biofilm. I have found treating with Nystatin, a non-absorbable antifungal azole effective in reducing Candida load and with resultant marked reduction in 25-D levels, often within 1 to 2 months.

Greg Blaney, M.D.
  



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wrotek
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2012 11:52

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Nice :)



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Hogan
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2012 15:58

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Now, South ]Indian fishermen who eat fish and are in the sun all day on their boats, can have 25-D levels a lot higher. But they usually don't live to a ripe old age.
 

How does this relate to the Mediterranean diet?   They also have a lot of sun and are eating a lot of fish but yet we hear that that diet is so good for us.  Is it something else in the diet?  I used to think it was the olive oil but in light of some of the comments on the boards from Trevor I think this isn't the case.  Anyone have any ideas? 

Karen

Last edited on Sun Feb 26th, 2012 15:59 by Hogan



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MP Start June'08|CFS and FM diagnosed 1990| Severe relapse after florquinoline antibiotics 2007|Chronic lung congestion and infections|Graves Disease diagnosed 18 months into MP. Dec 2007, 1,25D=69 25D=26, latest 25D is Nov 12, d25=10.
Dr Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2012 23:51

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Why do they tell you the diet is good for us, Karen? Is the average life expectancy there over 100? Or is the difference much smaller?

Or maybe they just have to say something to keep themselves in business?
 

Dogster
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 Posted: Mon Feb 27th, 2012 22:45

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Never could figure out where the term "mediterranean diet" came from, or what it means.  I lived and worked in Greece, back in the 70's and early 80's.  The "Mediterranean" is not a uniform place (even within one country, much less among many).  I spent most of my time in the mountains in northern Greece, and hardly anyone there was eating fish.  Beef, pork, lamb and chicken were much more common.  They do eat lots of delicious fresh fruits and vegetables.

I did spend quite a bit of time near the ocean and on islands, with greek friends.  Most werent eating any fish or seafood-- other than the occasional appetizer of say octopus or squid along with ouzo on an outing or vacation.  I did spend one summer on an island with a greek family, and we had fish exactly one time!  And that was a special occasion.

But the country is beautiful, the people great, the food is delicious. So i recommend it for living, travel, vacation etc but not for some vague health notion.:D

(P.S.  Sad about the recent economic/political turmoil.)

 



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