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wrotek
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Posted: Wed Jun 22nd, 2005 15:50 |
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Stronger immune system delays Th1 disease or speeds it up ?
I am thinking if this bugs uses immune system by making it overactive so if we have two persons with the same disease and one has stronger immune system ,then which one will develop more bugs quicker ? This with weaker immune system ot this with stronger.
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Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 homebound in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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DaveW
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Posted: Wed Jun 22nd, 2005 17:25 |
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Good question Wrotek! I look forward to hearing the answer to this one myself!
Regards,
- DaveW
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MP Aug14/04,Pre-MP D=19.6,1,25D=37 ratio 1.89 P2>12/27/04.Back to P1 fall/05.Back to P2 05/06. 21 yrs neuro-lyme not dx til 11/05. OlmesTR 40 mg/7hrs. Major: Weakness,IBS-C,pain,bad sleep,anxiety,depression,cognitive focus,memory,CMV,epilepsy & osteo
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desiree
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Posted: Thu Jun 23rd, 2005 05:39 |
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me too
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Frans
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Posted: Thu Jun 23rd, 2005 12:16 |
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Hi,
My thoughts about this:
There is no such thing as a stronger or weaker immunesystem.
If an immunesystem is more susceptible to bacteria, it just means that it is infected. So a 'strong' immunesystem is NOT infected and a 'weak' immunesystem is DEFINITELY infected.
Everyone's immunesystem uses the same chemicals to kil off (CWD or other)bacteria so every human immunesystem is capable of killing off every bacteria. That is what the MP is all about.
In fact one could state that every human immunesystem is weak, because the CWD-bacteria have become too smart. They can hide in immunecells.
I other words: the CWD-bacteria have evolved faster than the human immunesystem.
Remember that the MP does NOT make your immunesystem stronger, but it WEAKENS the CWDBs.
In other words: the MP makes up for the lack of evolution of the human immunesystem.
Hope this helps,
Sincerely, Frans
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Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
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wrotek
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Posted: Thu Jun 23rd, 2005 13:33 |
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I believe Doctor Marshall said something about that He believes that our body is slowing down for killing CWD ,so that is why brain fog occurs. I personally feel that i am slow minded ,sometimes when somebody speaks to me i have to think about it longer. That makes me crazy cause i look like crazy ,i just do not follow fast enough other people thoughts. That is the worst , brain fog makes me very hard to learn ,study . Physical pain is different story and for me less problem.
I am also wondering why our body is not evolving to kill CWD if they existed for thousands of years propably, meybe it is different evolution not in immune system functioning but in increasing mind capabilities just like Dr Marshall evolved His understanding of this bugs.
Let`s look how autoimmune diseases are treated ,with corticosteroids to stop or slow down immune system from overactivity.
So i we would like to boost immune system in this diseases could it do sthing good? It would be opposite to how steroids work. It is like overheating machine.
In the past i had astma ,i used some steroids i think and now i do not have astma. Meybe my body learned how to bit astma ,evolution or sthing
I wish i knew how to boost my immune system to find this bacteria on it`s own ,i can work with my mind to improve it`s function but how i can work to improve my immune system functioning ? What control do i have on it. Meybe positive attidute is sthing what leads to biologic evolution
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Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 homebound in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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desiree
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Posted: Thu Jun 23rd, 2005 14:05 |
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| Our bodies have an amazing ability to heal themselves if given the right fuel. Junk in junk out. I think we would be fooling ourselves if we thought that all we need is the MP and not a healthy diet, fresh air, etc. The body does not harbor cwd bacteria as a result of a Benicar deficiency. Last edited on Thu Jun 23rd, 2005 14:07 by desiree
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LeAnne
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 01:08 |
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Frans,
I agree. It is probably a combination of an overload of toxins in the body. Our bodies are created to handle normal amounts of toxins, but I think our liver just can't handle the amount that we all take in today. It is working overtime. About 60% of our immune system is in the intestine. So, I do think the immune system gets "worn out". An overload of these bacteria eventually leads to disregulated d metabolism and then a faulty immune response. I think Dr. Marshall said that people that have alot of pregnancies, and people that have been taking in excessive amounts of sun are probably more succeptible to these bacteria. Know one really knows where these bacteria come from. In Sarcoidosis, they believe some air borne pathogen is the reason, because it usually originates in the lungs. No matter how the bacteria get there, you must get your d levels regulated, and use the antibiotics to kill the bacteria. Prevention of a faulty immune system is another topic.
LeAnne
Last edited on Fri Jun 24th, 2005 01:39 by LeAnne
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Neuro-Sarcoidosis/lungs, spleen, nervous system, skin lesions, 125D66, MP 8/05, Ph1 3/06, Ph3 7/06, NoIRs, low lux home, cover up, 25D9 Sep07
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 05:44 |
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wrotek,
The cause is not complicated and the source of the bacteria is well-known. Please see:
CELL WALL DEFICIENT BACTERIA AND THE MARSHALL PROTOCOL
The theory of transmission and intracellular bacterial infections is discussed in this thread:
Risk of transmission to partners
The immune system response is faulty. It is not weak and is usually overactive in a vain attempt to eliminate the bacteria.
Best,
Meg
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DaveW
member
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 08:05 |
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I still have one question if I may.
A few years ago after some blood work, my Doc said that my immune system was "sluggish". I think some of my numbers (such as the white cell count) were down.
I responded by doing some research on what vitamins and herbs were responsible for a robust immune system. I then purchased and took several formulations designed to support the immune system. About 9 months later I was re-tested, and my Doc said my immune system had improved and was now right up to speed.
The question I am still wondering about is this: Should we support the immune system to help strengthen it to help kill off the CWD? , or should we refrain from strengthening the immune system until after the CWD are eradicated, to help control the inflammatory response?
I know that vitamins are generally contraindicated on the MP, but a person could still eat for high levels of A,C,E, zinc, selenium, bioflavanoids and anti-oxidants to support the immune system, if a stronger immune system is desirable.
Regards,
- DaveW
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MP Aug14/04,Pre-MP D=19.6,1,25D=37 ratio 1.89 P2>12/27/04.Back to P1 fall/05.Back to P2 05/06. 21 yrs neuro-lyme not dx til 11/05. OlmesTR 40 mg/7hrs. Major: Weakness,IBS-C,pain,bad sleep,anxiety,depression,cognitive focus,memory,CMV,epilepsy & osteo
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 08:52 |
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DaveW,
Did giving your immune system supplemental support make any significant difference to the progress of your disease?
The key discovery of the Marshall Pathogenesis is that the bacteria are inside the phagocytes, inside the white cells. It really doesn't matter whether the rest of the immune system appears 'functional' or not, the bacteria control the whole caboodle, and any attempt to 'support' the immune system will ultimately only be to the benefit of the bacterial pathogens.
..Trevor..
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wrotek
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 09:33 |
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Thas is what i wanted to know.
Doctor in a hospital told me when i asked them what are my chances to be healthy again. They answered that i have Young organism (which i see now is meaningless) so my chances are above 50% .
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Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 homebound in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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desiree
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 11:18 |
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Trevor,
You state that "any attempt to support the immune system will utimately only be to the benefit of the bacterial pathogens." Eating a balanced diet with lots fruits and vegetables supports the immune system so are you saying that we should not eat too healthy and maybe even throw in a Twinkie or two every now and then just to make sure we're not supporting our immune systems too much?
Desiree
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desiree
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 11:21 |
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| note to self:buy Twinkies
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desiree
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 11:25 |
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Wrotek,
Do they sell Twinkies in Poland?
Desiree
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LeAnne
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 12:08 |
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It wouldn't hurt you to eat a twinkie now and then. Play in the dirt now and then. It actually helps your immune system. The use of anti-bacterial cleaners, soaps, ect...aren't necessarily good for you either. I think moderation is the key. Everything in life should have a balance. We don't want to become fanatical about it, but reasonable. Immunizations work the same way.
LeAnne
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Neuro-Sarcoidosis/lungs, spleen, nervous system, skin lesions, 125D66, MP 8/05, Ph1 3/06, Ph3 7/06, NoIRs, low lux home, cover up, 25D9 Sep07
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LeAnne
Member
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 12:21 |
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Meg,
Thanks for the thread. Interesting. Since I've been sick I've learned sooo much. I know I have more to learn. I want to learn as much as I can.
LeAnne
LeAnne
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Neuro-Sarcoidosis/lungs, spleen, nervous system, skin lesions, 125D66, MP 8/05, Ph1 3/06, Ph3 7/06, NoIRs, low lux home, cover up, 25D9 Sep07
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 12:40 |
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I always used to carry twinkies (actually peanut M&Ms) when I travelled, and lots of chocolates too, both Low-Carb 'Pure Delite' (from Walmart) and Cadbury's Dairy Milk (22 calories a piece).
Of course, when I am home, I wouldn't have dreamt of indulging
But none of this was for the sake of my immune system. The pathogens have an Anaerobic Glucose Energy metabolism so that sugars and carbs just feed the bugs (see my presentation at "30th Lyme")
Sometimes you just gotta focus on improving patient morale, however
..Trevor..
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wrotek
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 15:06 |
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| I am sorry i can`t find twinkie in my dictionary What is that ? Is this something unhealthy to eat ?
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Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 homebound in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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Margo
member
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 17:36 |
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Wrotek,
Twinkies are a small chocolate cake with a cream filling, covered in chocolate frosting. Since they are mass-produced, they don't really taste like a cake from a good bakery (also not as good as grandma used to make). They are full of sugar. Children would be happy to get one in their lunchbox.
Margo
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Parent of teen-aged sarcoidosis/uveitis patient on the MP
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wrotek
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Posted: Fri Jun 24th, 2005 17:45 |
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| Sounds delicious
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Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 homebound in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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