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Sedona
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Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2006 00:47 |
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Two questions:
I was about to embark on a two week water fast in April; is that advisable during phase I ?
I wanted to begin hitting the gym slowly doing cardio only; is that advisable during phase I ?
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Sedona: Neural/Lung Sarc/ biopsy 9/96 & 9/01| Feb06 avoid light comm Ph1| 1,25D=60 25D=27 Nov06| Ph2 05/06| Ph3 11/06 |4/9/08 25,D=7 1,25D=54| homebound low lux NoIRs| mucinex cont. oxygen|
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jrfoutin
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Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2006 02:27 |
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Why do you want to stress your body with a two week water fast... 2 months from now and well into PhI? Water fasting is a popular fad right now, true. But the MP probably isn't what you want to be doing with a water fast.
I'm pretty sure a good moderator will provide better insights and links than I can, but combining the MP with steroid-enriched cardio workouts is probably not a great idea either (sorry).
Look at it this way, it's not like you won't ever get the chance to do water fasting and cardio workouts again in your life, really. Just put them on hold right now, as you use the MP to help you skip what usually comes after StageIV.
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Sarcoidosis 125D61, MP10/05 ModP2 12/05 Ph2 6/06 Ph3 10/06, NoIRs limited outings covered, 2/08 25D6.2, 10/08 25D6.9
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paulalbert
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Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2006 05:21 |
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stageIV,
I agree with JR. I vote nay on both counts.
Here's the FAQ on exercise:
Are there any Guidelines on Exercise & the Marshall Protocol?
My personal advice about exercise while on the MP would be this: if you have to get dressed to do it, you probably shouldn't.
As for a water fast, I can almost guarantee you won't get better doing that, and here's why (this applies to exercise too). Even now, your body is under tremendous stress, but it will probably be under even greater stress during the MP. Do you really want to give an already overtaxed body something unnecessary and extra to do (rebuilding tissues, etc.) even while you deny it the metabolic building blocks to do it?
By the way, losing weight is an outstanding way to flood your body with toxic amounts of 1,25-D hanging out in your tissues. Your inflammation (1,25-D) will come down but as your body is able to process it.
All I can say is that from my own experience the one change I made that really helped me get healthier and fitter sooner was wearing my NOIRs religiously and avoiding sunlight. That is the key to rapid improvement.
Paul
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Diag CFS 6.03 / sympt since 9.02 / exercise, food intol, sleep prob / 1,25D: 16, 4.06; 1,25D:27, 25D:26 7.04; 1,25D:43, 25D:6 6.05; 1,25D:17, 25D:8 8.05; / MP: 7.04 / Ph. 3 / Bacteriality
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Sedona
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2006 05:56 |
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| Paul, my husband cracked up about the getting dressed part. I'm gonna miss being active but I really miss being healthy. This only reminds me of a saying I once read "advice is what you ask for when you already know the answer but wish you didn't". Thanks everyone for your feedback.
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Sedona: Neural/Lung Sarc/ biopsy 9/96 & 9/01| Feb06 avoid light comm Ph1| 1,25D=60 25D=27 Nov06| Ph2 05/06| Ph3 11/06 |4/9/08 25,D=7 1,25D=54| homebound low lux NoIRs| mucinex cont. oxygen|
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paulalbert
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Posted: Wed Feb 15th, 2006 07:34 |
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Tell your husband that all household chores are contraindicated too. 
Paul
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Diag CFS 6.03 / sympt since 9.02 / exercise, food intol, sleep prob / 1,25D: 16, 4.06; 1,25D:27, 25D:26 7.04; 1,25D:43, 25D:6 6.05; 1,25D:17, 25D:8 8.05; / MP: 7.04 / Ph. 3 / Bacteriality
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Lantern
Member in Phase 2/3
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Posted: Mon Feb 20th, 2006 03:28 |
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For quite a while I read everything I could about different types of fasting, juice fasts, water fasts, and I really thought this could be an answer to my CFS. Then I heard that fasting for CFS patients is contra-indicated.
If you have CWD bacteria then you probably already have infection-induced malnutrition (look
here) and fasting will further deprive your body of what it needs. You've probably tried a gazillion diets and ways of eating as trial-and-error to find something that would help you feel better. Once you get onto the MP you will probably find that foods will be used better by your body, and food sensitivities will gradually get better (apart from times of gut-related herxes).
As for exercise, don't do it just because you feel you "should", as the most important thing for you to do is to let your body rest and recover from illness. Something like yoga that helps the lymphatic system to clear out toxins may be helpful without being stressful on the body.
PS. I'm interested in hearing about your experiences with Colloidal Silver as that's something I've been interested in for some time. Do you think it helped you at all? Did you have any effects, either good or bad, from taking it?Last edited on Mon Feb 20th, 2006 03:32 by Lantern
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CFS IBS Malabsorption Hypothyroid Rickettsia. Ph1 Apr06, Mod.Ph2 Oct06, Ph2 Feb07, Ph3 Aug07. Endep T3/T4 Panadol. NoIRs, homebound in low lux. Apr07 1,25D=15.4, 25D=13.6
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paulalbert
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Posted: Mon Feb 20th, 2006 04:48 |
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Shadowzone,
I'm not familiar with exercise's detoxifying component or its effect on the lymph system, but certain exercises like yoga, which you mentioned, are also capable of opening up new muscle fibers to blood containing all those wonderful antibiotics you take. So, maybe at certain stages when you're not herxing quite as much, yoga might not be the worst thing in the world. I'm still not clear how much temporary feelings of bleh are due to herx, and how much are as a consequence of rebuilding muscle fiber and all the other repair jobs that must be taken care of after a good hard stretch. To be determined!
I remain suspicious of anabolic (muscle-building) and endurance training (>110 bpm) for people with serious TH1 illness.
Also, I wanted to share for anyone who may be interested this Journal of Applied Physiology article which discusses more precisely how exertion attenuates immune response. The review looks at what happens following heavy endurance exercise in healthy people, which I'm assuming can be applied to a large extent to chronically ill TH1 patients.
Authors state that heavy endurance exercise both stresses and suppresses immune function. I note in the list below that endurance exercise, if not also other forms, can lead to increases in certain important kinds of phagocytosis (the process which underlies herx) and a decrease in the number of lymphocytes circulating in the blood.
Here is a list of all the immune-related actions caused by endurance exercise the authors came up with:
1) Neutrophilia and lymphopenia.
2) Increase in blood granulocyte and monocyte phagocytosis, but a decrease in nasal neutrophil phagocytosis.
3) Decrease in granulocyte oxidative burst activity.
4) Decrease in nasal mucociliary clearance.
5) Decrease in NK cell cytotoxic activity.
6) Decrease in mitogen-induced lymphocyte proliferation.
7) Decrease in the DTH response.
8) Blunted MHC II expression in macrophages.
9) No impairment in antibody production after vaccination (over a 2-wk period).
10) Increase in pro- and anti-inflammatory cytokines (e.g., IL-6 and IL-1ra).
11) Decrease in nasal and salivary IgA concentration.
I note again for the record that the reason why endurance exercise can improve immune function over the long run is that your body's response to stress is to overcompensate, but only when metabolic resources are available. The analogy I can think of is how the body's M.O. for responding to hypothermic conditions: blood leaves the extremities and heats the core no matter how much your conscious mind would rather have warm hands than a warm liver or brain stem.
I didn't want to do it, but here is a not entirely flattering article on colloidal silver. I can't vouch for the accuracy of it, but this article has enough in it to raise an eyebrow about the product.
Think about this: even if colloidal silver works (according to the informal study in the article, half of the brands do not), you would be duplicating the efforts of the MP. My advice is to focus on the MP. The only reason you would ever consider using a product like colloidal silver is if you're not herxing enough, and if you're not herxing enough (enough = marked but sustainable level), you're not doing the MP correctly. Don't you worry. There's plenty to come!
PaulLast edited on Mon Feb 20th, 2006 05:08 by paulalbert
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Diag CFS 6.03 / sympt since 9.02 / exercise, food intol, sleep prob / 1,25D: 16, 4.06; 1,25D:27, 25D:26 7.04; 1,25D:43, 25D:6 6.05; 1,25D:17, 25D:8 8.05; / MP: 7.04 / Ph. 3 / Bacteriality
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Lantern
Member in Phase 2/3
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Posted: Mon Feb 20th, 2006 05:18 |
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Paul, Thanks for the great info! The exercise article is fantastic, although I don't understand all of the medical terms and only skim-read it due to brain fog.
I always disagreed with doctors suggesting "graded exercise" for my CFS as I was sure that fatigue is the body's signal to rest and not push it any further. I'm positive it's not the same kind of feeling as a 'healthy' person's lack-of-exercise tiredness, which I'm sure some doctors must think it is. As for immune suppression, this might explain why post-exertional malaise is common for Th1 diseases. I don't feel so bad about giving up yoga class now.
Just as an aside, Argyria is not a 'disease' as such, it is deposits of silver which discolour the skin. Apparantly it can be avoided/corrected by supplementing with Vit E and Selenium, which Colloidal Silver seems to use up when taking it. I don't know that that info is proven though, as with all 'folk medicine' there's equal amounts of 'personal experience' and misinformation, but not much good research.
PS. And I agree with your edit - focusing on the MP is most important as it is a complete treatment and adding anything else is unnecessary. BTW your new avatar is great!  Last edited on Mon Feb 20th, 2006 05:20 by Lantern
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CFS IBS Malabsorption Hypothyroid Rickettsia. Ph1 Apr06, Mod.Ph2 Oct06, Ph2 Feb07, Ph3 Aug07. Endep T3/T4 Panadol. NoIRs, homebound in low lux. Apr07 1,25D=15.4, 25D=13.6
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tom
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Posted: Mon Feb 20th, 2006 10:15 |
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At the risk of sounding redundant, please let me add by describing a personal experience that is based on your very question. I personally could not agree more with the members before me. Exercise, although beneficial as a treatment protocol for TH-1 inflammatory illness is only palliative at best. Even then one has to be very careful in finding the proper balance. Too little could be insignificant. Likewise, too much could be counterproductive. From a person that enjoyed long distant running, this came very hard, yet I still manage to get in walking, within reason.
Back in March (Before learning of the MP) I studied some of Shelton’s books and went on a 3 week water fast. Shelton and others had described and almost “nirvana” experience. Although It would be fair to say that many people may have experienced this, I did not. I found the fast grueling and painful and although it also had a palliative effect it did not go far enough in bringing me the symptomatic remission that I had hoped. For the first time, with the MP, it appears that we can now treat the causative factor of our illness. When I am fully recovered, I will look forward to the day when I can resume a more rigorous training program. Respectfully, I would speak amiss if I did not advise you to do the same.
All the best to your recovery
Tom
Last edited on Mon Feb 20th, 2006 10:19 by tom
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CFS 125D50, Ambien NoIRs Ph2 03/06 Ph3 10/06 last 25D22 Jan06
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Sedona
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Tue Feb 21st, 2006 01:02 |
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Once again thanks everyone for your replies. I have decided to play it cool and let it happen. I started a diary of this experience and will keep up with the details. So far so good but the interesting stuff has yet to come.
Shadowzone; the colloidal silver helped tremendously. I developed a serious infection in my upper right lobe. It helped keep me from deaths door; I wasted to 90lbs and had very little pulse. My accupunturist brought me back with the silver and accupunture. You can only take it for a short period of time due to the offending organisms developing a resistance to the silver. Also, There's the possibility of developing "Agyria" when taking silver over a long period of time. If interested here is an article http://www.mildsilverprotein.com/silvermsp.pdf Last edited on Tue Feb 21st, 2006 01:04 by Sedona
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Sedona: Neural/Lung Sarc/ biopsy 9/96 & 9/01| Feb06 avoid light comm Ph1| 1,25D=60 25D=27 Nov06| Ph2 05/06| Ph3 11/06 |4/9/08 25,D=7 1,25D=54| homebound low lux NoIRs| mucinex cont. oxygen|
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