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Asilan
Health Professional
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Posted: Tue Jan 30th, 2007 10:57 |
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OK, have found the answers to questions 1 and 2:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/1/95 and http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=1853516
ie. the amount of vit D depends on how much light exposure the mushrooms get during growth, harvesting, transportation, etc.
Have emailed Quorn with these links and asked if they would consider testing their mycoprotein for vit D in the 'light' of this info. Probably a very long shot but if they come up with anything substantial I will let you all know.
Alison
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CFS, Musculo-skeletal pain/stiffness, MP 5/07, MP2 7/07, 25D <4 Jan07, NoIRs, cover up, break Jan08, restart 27Jan08
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Julia
Advocate
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Posted: Tue Jan 30th, 2007 11:54 |
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Alison, would you believe anything Quorn said now, in the light (sorry  ) of their outrageous claim that mushrooms contain no vitamin D?
In answer to your query about different kinds of mushrooms, yes, they do vary - S***ake are the worst, I believe, followed by one or two other fancy varieties. Ordinary common-or-garden corner shop mushrooms are the best. I eat about a serving a week and have very low 25D. Moderation in all things...
Quorn is not really a 'mushroom product', as they used to claim, but a different kind of fungus (doesn't sound as good in the ads). Personally I'm wary of anything so highly processed. As Meg likes to quote, don't eat anything your great-granny wouldn't have recognised as food.
Well now, I have to confess to keeping a couple of packets of Quorn steaks in the freezer because they're so quick for emergencies. And then try not to have emergencies more than once in a blue moon!  Moderation in all things...
Chilli con carne has beans and rice for protein. Increase the beans and skip the meat substitute!
 Julia
PS hey, I didn't put those stars in the name of the japanese mushrooms - this board must have an auto-editing feature that cuts out dubious words!!
Last edited on Tue Jan 30th, 2007 11:59 by Julia
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Sarc dx Apr.03, uveitis/hypercalcaemia/ankle osteoarthritis/eczema. MP May04. Hydrocortisone cream. 25D Sep.07: 10. Not now avoiding light; glasses for sun only. Life is good! Julia's story
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Asilan
Health Professional
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Posted: Tue Jan 30th, 2007 12:16 |
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Julia,
I know your solution is the sensible one, but I/we do love our Quorn. As to whether or not I would believe them now, I guess it would partly depend on who replies next and what they offer to do. I'm hoping that someone more senior than Customer Services will take up my challenge and run some proper tests. My nearest and dearest do accuse me of unnatural optimism on occasions. . .
Alison
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CFS, Musculo-skeletal pain/stiffness, MP 5/07, MP2 7/07, 25D <4 Jan07, NoIRs, cover up, break Jan08, restart 27Jan08
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Jan 30th, 2007 21:00 |
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| Granny would surely not recognize quorn! That quote came from the very interesting article on the politics of nutrutional health claims that tgritton sent yesterday, linked to in this post...Eat real food.
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hellohope
inactive member
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Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 02:08 |
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Hi everyone,
Just wanted to know of any other foods containing omega 3 besides nuts and soy that I am allergic to. My husband thought there was some sort of meat in the U.S. which had just as much omega 3 in as fish? Is this correct? If so, is there anything that you know of in australia.
Many thanks,
Hope
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Rickettsia/CFS| Sept06 1,25D-45 25D-18 Nov06 25D 12ng/ml| Sept06 Avoid light/D NoIRs| Beni com Sept06| restart 16Jan07 Beni 20mg Q3H mino 25mg|mino 50mg 6/2/2007 75mg 23/4/07 Mod Phase 2 6May07 25D-8ng/ml
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tickbite
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 02:51 |
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Hi Hope,
I gather since we can't eat many eggs, and fish nor supplementing omega3 I gather the following might be helpful.
From Wikipedia:
"Krill, a small, shrimp-like zooplankton, is a less-known source of omega-3. Oil extracted from the krill contains omega-3 fatty acids, such as EPA and DHA, and antioxidants, such as astaxanthin and flavonoids. One advantage of extracting omega-3s from krill is that they are at the bottom of the food chain and do not contain nearly the amount of heavy metals and PCBs as predatory fish. Thus they require little or no distillation. However in comparison to fish, krill contain much lower amounts of omega-3 fatty acids per gram.
Meat from grass-fed animals is often higher in omega-3 than meat from the corresponding grain-fed animal.[citation needed] The omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of grass-fed beef is about 2:1, making it a more useful source of omega-3 than grain-fed beef, which usually has a ratio of 4:1.[30] Commercially available lamb is almost always grass-fed, and subsequently higher in omega-3 than other common meat sources.[citation needed] Milk and cheese from grass-fed cows may also be good sources of omega-3. One UK study showed that half a pint of milk provides 10% of the recommended daily intake (RDI) of ALA, while a piece of organic cheese the size of a matchbox may provide up to 88%".[31]
The microalgae Crypthecodinium cohnii and Schizochytrium are rich sources of DHA (22:6 ω-3) and can be produced commercially in bioreactors. Oil from brown algae (kelp) is a source of EPA.
Acai palm fruit also contains omega-3 fatty acids.
Specific oils.......see the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acidwikipedia
And also there is a need to know about proper balancing between Omega3 and Omega6.....apparently Omega3's are the more important. The omega-6 to omega-3 ratio
seeming as 3:1 to 5:1 ratio of Omega6 to Omega3 is optimal, what is the best way to attain that?
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"Lyme","CFS", Meningitis
Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 02:59 |
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| Please see Omega-3 fatty acids
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P.Bear R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 04:31 |
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| Hope, Would stay away from Krill or seaweed products because they may contain too much "vitamin" D. best, P.B.
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MCS, neuroborreliosis, fatigue, tinnitus, neck/facial/shoulder/lumbar pain, Bells palsy, Prostatitis, blurry vision, dizziness, 1,25D=48, MP2/05 MP3, cytomel, D25<5
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tickbite
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 12:31 |
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| I wasn't suggesting eating sea food. However, apparently some types of Krill actually contain very little vitamin D for whatever reason. ie deep sea, under ice krill. Anyway, doesn't meat contain small amounts of vitamin D also? All in moderation I guess
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"Lyme","CFS", Meningitis
Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007
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Asilan
Health Professional
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 09:03 |
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I received a repy today from K.L. Ellison (Miss), Product Information Manager for Quorn. (Good to see my enquiry being passed a little up the management structure!) In it she says:
"Mycoprotein is from the fungi family, but it is unlike any mushrooms you would find in your grocery store, being microscopic in nature.
Whilst the fungi does occur growing naturally, for Quorn product manufacture, it is grown in a controlled environment inside a fermenter which is enclosed. Therefore it does see any natural light at all, and is not given any artificial UV light during manufacture, harvesting or transport.
Therefore, it is very highly unlikely that mycoprotein and the Quorn products made from mycoprotein will contain any significant amounts of vitamin D at all.
We have no plans to perform any analysis on our products in the near future, however, if we do, we will contact you again with our findings." (emphasis mine)
Of course it is possible that this species of edible fungus (Fusarium venenatum) is able to make 'Vit' D in the absence of UV light. So don't assume this is the definitive answer.
As for me, I will continue to use the plain Quorn (watch out for whole egg added to some products though) as part of my diet but it will be high on the list for elimination if my D level does not fall as expected.
I hope this helps others to make their own decision.
Alison
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CFS, Musculo-skeletal pain/stiffness, MP 5/07, MP2 7/07, 25D <4 Jan07, NoIRs, cover up, break Jan08, restart 27Jan08
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 10:10 |
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Fish make their Vitamin D in the absence of UV light. See for example "Cloning of a functional vitamin D receptor from the lamprey (Petromyzon marinus), an ancient vertebrate lacking a calcified skeleton and teeth"
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/144/6/2704
I personally believe that UV light is not necessary for for Homo sapiens either. Mankind has been hung up on the "sunshine" concept, and has not gone looking for the enzyme which allows the electrocylic cleavage of the sterol ring. So they haven't found it
Standard human logic has failed to understand the steroidal nature of Vitamin D. Biologists are now publishing an average of one paper a day describing the steroidal actions of Vitamin D. But nobody in clinical medicine seems to notice
http://tinyurl.com/2xf2rq
ps: Mushrooms contain significant Vitamin D.
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P.Bear R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 17:21 |
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The supplement 'olive leaf extract', often encouraged in CFS as an anti-viral, may have vit Ds present based upon the the following table found in a patent application. Avoid these plant leaf extracts to be safe. P.B.
From:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5776461-description.html
The amount of vitamin D in the leaves of each plant was calculated from a standard curve using 25-D standard for the protein binding assay and 1,25-(OH)2 D standard for the receptor binding assay. The results that were obtained are summarized below in Table 1.
25-D/OTHER VITAMIN D 1,25-(OH)2 D
PLANT NAMES
(ng/g DRY LEAF)
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Solanum 118.4 10.0
Cestrum 55.7 14.8
Alfalfa 46.8 21.3
Olive 74.3 12.0 |
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MCS, neuroborreliosis, fatigue, tinnitus, neck/facial/shoulder/lumbar pain, Bells palsy, Prostatitis, blurry vision, dizziness, 1,25D=48, MP2/05 MP3, cytomel, D25<5
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wrotek
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Fri Dec 31st, 2004 |
| Location: | Wroclaw, Poland |
| Posts: | 1122 |
| Status: |
Online
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 17:31 |
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Thas is why alfalfa made me feel so different in the past
I wonder what about olive oil. Last edited on Sat Feb 10th, 2007 17:32 by wrotek
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Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 homebound in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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P.Bear R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 17:32 |
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I came across the fact that these four plants have been know to cause toxicity in grazing animals due to high levels of 1,25-D.
Cestrum diurnum,Trisetum flavescens, Solanum malacoxylon and Solanum glaucophyllum.
I found some very interesting veterinary studies that show calcium deposition in vasculature, osteopenia, and osteonecrosis from the toxic exposure to a few of these plants.
The following study is extremely interesting, best, P.B.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-736X2005000100008&script=sci_arttext
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MCS, neuroborreliosis, fatigue, tinnitus, neck/facial/shoulder/lumbar pain, Bells palsy, Prostatitis, blurry vision, dizziness, 1,25D=48, MP2/05 MP3, cytomel, D25<5
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P.Bear R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 17:41 |
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| I looked into the olive oil, and it should be fine. The leaves would be the problem. Vitamin D levels will reportedly vary quite a bit in alfalfa depending on if it was cut and dried in the sun. best, P.B. Last edited on Sat Feb 10th, 2007 17:45 by P.Bear R.N.
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MCS, neuroborreliosis, fatigue, tinnitus, neck/facial/shoulder/lumbar pain, Bells palsy, Prostatitis, blurry vision, dizziness, 1,25D=48, MP2/05 MP3, cytomel, D25<5
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wrotek
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Fri Dec 31st, 2004 |
| Location: | Wroclaw, Poland |
| Posts: | 1122 |
| Status: |
Online
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 17:57 |
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RESULTS
The Sm-poisoned rabbits showed anorexia(...)
Solanum and Cestrum belong to the same plant family
Solanum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanum
Kingdom: Plantae
Division: Magnoliophyta
Class: Magnoliopsida
Subclass: Asteridae
Order: Solanales
Family: Solanaceae
Genus: Solanum
L., 1753
================================
Cestrum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cestrum
Kingdom: Plantae
Division: Magnoliophyta
Class: Magnoliopsida
Order: Solanales
Family: Solanaceae
Genus: Cestrum
L.Last edited on Sat Feb 10th, 2007 18:43 by wrotek
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Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 homebound in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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migsies
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 19:19 |
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| Very interesting...the Solanaceae family often crops up as the culprit in so called food allergies (includes tobacco, tomatoes, potatos, eggplant, and many other common foods). I used to think it was partly due to the high alkaloid content but high 1,25-D levels might be a more compelling explanation, as the alkaloid content in the fruits is not that high compared to the leaves. The study from Argentina is certainly an eye opener. I guess I will have to limit my grazing from now on!
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Sarcoidosis FM Lyme babesia 25D>7(Feb07) Ph1Aug05 Ph2Oct05 Ph3 Jun06 Valium Lyrica Ambien NoIRs limited outings covered Phase I 8/05, II 10/05, III 6/06.
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 20:05 |
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Migsies, the list of foods you give is also high in Chlorogenic acid.
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migsies
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 20:39 |
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| Ahaaa...a double wammy! Better stick to the "asado" then, and maybe even leave out the "mate", just in case! In Argentina "mate" is drank in a very concentrated form, from a gourd chock full with chopped dry leaves. If "mate" were to have chlorogenic acid, the dose per serving would likely be VERY substancial. I know "mate" is an ilex (not in Solanaceae) and therefore in the Magnoliopsida, the same class as Solanaceae. I don't know how well chlorogenic acid maps onto a phylogeny for this group of plants but I am certainly intrigued.
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Sarcoidosis FM Lyme babesia 25D>7(Feb07) Ph1Aug05 Ph2Oct05 Ph3 Jun06 Valium Lyrica Ambien NoIRs limited outings covered Phase I 8/05, II 10/05, III 6/06.
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migsies
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sat Feb 10th, 2007 22:08 |
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I see after some web surfing that "mate tea" has chlorogenic acid . It used to be considered a health drink in the US, might still,...ooops!
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Sarcoidosis FM Lyme babesia 25D>7(Feb07) Ph1Aug05 Ph2Oct05 Ph3 Jun06 Valium Lyrica Ambien NoIRs limited outings covered Phase I 8/05, II 10/05, III 6/06.
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