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Aussie Barb
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Posted: Mon Oct 31st, 2005 01:35 |
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Why do I have to stop my alternative treatment and avoid most supplements?
The recommendatin to avoid supplements comes from the MP Team's valuable experience with many members. We are eager for everyone to have an effective and successful journey to wellness.
"The problem with supplements is that (in general) nobody knows their mechanism of action, and often we do not really know what they consist of.
If an increased frequency of Benicar can palliate the GI symptoms, and it usually does, this is safer and less likely to cause immunopathology surges than supplements, which act as additional variables, making it tough to figure out what is causing the symptoms being experienced.
The so-called 'alternative treatments' have failed to work for you, and, in the long-term, failed to work for everybody else who has tried them. Why do you still ask about them when you have the keys to full recovery amongst the folk here at our study-site?
You do not want a physician who wants to talk about alternative meds. You need a physician who will help you recover. The path to recovery has been clearly defined by hundreds of folk in the cohort here. It is a well-defined path and does not involve 'homeopathic meds'. You need to tell your doctor that you want him to follow the data this study has collected, not wander off on a tangent. Divergence will not only delay your progress, it may well harm you.
Most of the body's healing processes work better if they are left alone while you are on the MP. The concept that we should intervene in these diseases with supplements or therapies has not worked, and I deprecate it.
I have seen this happen so often before...trying to Band-Aid the metabolite shifts (with supplements) will not help recovery, and will often make the disease worse. That is why we have a zero-tolerance advice on supplements. They are almost always counter-productive.
The MP is a curative therapy, we kill the bacteria underlying the disease process so that the patient is returned to full health. We are not talking about relieving the symptoms so that the patient can lurch from day to day.
Supplements can be over-the-counter (OTC) or prescription medications. Just because something is available OTC doesn't make it safe or innocuous. The innate immune system has to be delicately balanced in order to induce phagocytosis of the pathogens, and it seems just about anything upsets it.
One of the problems with supplements is that you can only "think that there is NO problem with it". You can't know that there is no problem with it. For instance, you can't be sure that there is no occult vitamin D in the product, or what other effects the ingredients have..
Generally, anything you add to the MP tends to stop it killing the pathogens. There is a very delicate balance which an MP patient sets up, a balance between the rate of killing the pathogens and the level of herxheimer which the patient can handle.
The key thing is that the body does not work by having specific "levels" of anything, It works by setting up a "balance" between all the various things. So it is an incorrect concept to try and force the body to have a particular level of any one metabolite when the body's own homeostasis is working to lower it for some reason, such as disease. All the metabolites will come back into balance as you kill off the pathogens.
Just because a particular metabolite is a certain level in "healthy" individuals doesn't mean to say that any good will be achieved by supplementation in sick folks. The supplementation with Vitamin-D to try to achieve 'normal' levels of 25-D is just one of these futile exercises.
Once you get the ARB (Benicar) in place then the body usually works well enough so that you can get through the initial stages of the MP with a good balanced diet, and no specific supplementation, or, in the case of vitamins, supplementation at a fraction of the RDA levels.
The MP would not be the MP if every out-of-the-box concept was applicable during the MP. Most important, keeping interactions down to a known minimal list protects you, for a safe treatment plan.
It is absolutely essential than someone on the MP not take any supplements or medications without first checking with the moderators. In the unlikely event that the supplement actually does what is advertised, and your body's immune system is restored in some way, the results could kill you.
The problem with supplements is that (in general) nobody knows their mechanism of action, and often we do not really know what they consist of.
If an increased frequency of Benicar can palliate the GI symptoms, and it usually does, this is safer and less likely to cause immunopathology surges than supplements, which act as additional variables, making it tough to figure out what is causing the symptoms being experienced.
My position is simple.All supplements and drugs are likely to give rise to problems. Focus on what is causing the illness, and use the bare minimum of intervention. Ultimately the body will look after itself."
Dr. Trevor Marshall, Ph.D
Thyroid supplementation
Do not discontinue your thyroid supplementation. The need for thyroid supplements may change quickly so ask Doc to check thyroid function a couple weeks after starting Benicar. Then monitor thyroid function closely and adjust the level of supplementation downward as needed.
Supplements may contain vitamin D
With regard to vitamin D, it has been found that even when supplements do not include vitamin D on the label, they still may contain it. This is because vitamin D is naturally found in some plant and animal products and the FDA does not require labeling of naturally occurring vitamin D found in foods, herbs or supplements. And because vitamin D is cheap and thought to be only beneficial by the uneducated.
Even when a product label indicates vitamin D is present, the label may not reveal the actual amount of vitamin D. A study by Adams and Lee (Gains in bone mineral density with resolution of vitamin D intoxication, Annals of Internal Medicine, Aug 1997, 127(3):203-6) showed excessive levels of vitamin D in several patients who were taking large amounts of vitamin D from nonprescription supplements. The vitamin D intake in these patients was high enough to cause them to have bone loss. Some of the supplements they were taking were analyzed and found to contain added vitamin D that was not included on the label. When all supplements other than calcium were stopped, their bone density gradually returned toward normal.
For those on the Marshall Protocol or with certain inflammatory diseases, Dr. Marshall finds that the problem is much more difficult due to the dysregulation of vitamin D, which causes many of the patients to have very high levels of active vitamin D, even in cases where their intake of vitamin D and sun exposure is moderate. Avoiding vitamin D in supplements is especially difficult for these patients because very small amounts of vitamin D in supplements are hard to detect by commonly used laboratory methods and very small amounts can still be a problem for MP patients, particularly during the first 12-18 months of the MP. ~Joyce Waterhouse, Ph.D
Ingredients in supplements may be immunosuppressive
We often catch flak for telling people to stop taking the supplements they have relied upon to get from day to day. The reason we do this is simple - the body cannot recover unless the number of variables is reduced so that the patient can relate symptom flares to the event which caused them.
In a nutshell
Supplements:
1. may contain occult 25-D.
2. may cause intolerable immune system reactions or a lack of immunopathology.
3. can reduce your ability to understand how immunopathology is affecting your body
Supplements to avoid list
There is no 'list of supplements to avoid'. Our recomendation is to avoid all of them unless there are special circumstances. Following are explanations regarding a few of the contraindicated supplements folks have been taking.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES TAKE ANY FISH OIL PREPARATION or OMEGA-3. IT WILL SET BACK POTENTIAL PROGRESS AND MAKE IT MORE PAINFUL TO START KILLING THE BUGS. IT MAY TAKE MONTHS TO CLEAR OUT OF THE SYSTEM.
When is is okay to take supplements?
If a supplement is providing needed palliative relief of intolerable symptoms and not know to cause problems, then you may continue its use.
For example, if you have abdominal pain that is relieved by milk thistle or if a supplement helps you to get much-needed sleep or relieves intolerable anxiety or depression that is okay to take. Be sure to check the label for added Vitamin D in all supplements.
Continue to assess your need for palliative supplements and wean when symptoms allow.
Adding something you assume your body is no longer making can cause a dependence or an imbalance in delicate biochemistry and interfere with your body's attempt to maintain homeostasis. This is counterproductive and contrainidicated.
Supplements may support a nutrient deficiency
If you can not get the RDA of a necessary nutrient, such as calcium, from diet alone, sometimes a supplement may be appropriate. (see links below)
ALL supplements MUST BE DECLARED to your doctor and the moderators, and most will have to be discontinued.
It's a good idea to ask your pharmacist to check all your medications and any supplements for possible interactions or contraindications. Or you may wish to use the Drug Digest website to learn if any of the medications you are taking interact negatively with each other.
The essence of the recommendations in this FAQ is:
-check with your Doctor (while giving Doc the details of the MP recommendations).
-check the supplement is not contraindicated.
-only take a supplement if it is relieving an intolerable symptom or you have a known deficiency and then supplement only to the RDA.
-make sure the supplement doesn't contain listed or unlisted Vitamin D (an increasing 25-D test will be your proof of the latter).
-wean the supplement as your symptoms allow.
-consider the supplement as a contending element if your immunopathology level is too high or too low.
-declare the supplement to the moderators.
If your progress on the MP is hampered in any way, then you should reexamine all your non-MP medications.
Related topics:
Why should I avoid hormone supplementation?
Should I stop taking any of my medications?
I thought all over-the-counter supplements were safe. Which ones should I be concerned about?
Should I take vitamins?
Do I need to detox while on the MP?
Why should I avoid folic acid supplementation?
Do I need to take a calcium supplement?
Should I stop taking any of my medications?
Is it okay to take magnesium?
SAFETY WARNING TO ALL
Combining other protocols with the MP is contraindicated
(Scroll down for info on specific supplements and therapies...note, if you do not see a treatment of supplement listed in this thread that does not mean it is okay to take)
Last edited on Mon May 26th, 2008 05:22 by
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Aussie Barb
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Posted: Thu Nov 10th, 2005 01:45 |
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Dietary supplements
The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act defines dietary supplements as a:
*product (other than tobacco) intended to supplement the diet that bears or contains one or more of the following dietary ingredients: a vitamin, mineral, amino acid, herb or other botanical; OR
*a dietary substance for use to supplement the diet by increasing the total dietary intake; OR
*a concentrate, metabolite, constituent, extract, or combination of any ingredient described above; AND
*intended for ingestion in the form of a capsule, powder, softgel, or gelcap, and not represented as a conventional food or as a sole item of a meal or the diet.
Products taken to improve your health in any way are also considered suppplements.
Dietary supplements are contraindicated.
"It is be best to rely on real, unprocessed food to maintain nutrient balance and adequate calorie intake.
"There is a big problem with the assumption that "Food makes the man." It doesn't. In fact, when the body starts down-regulating hormones and metabolites the body is usually doing that for a reason. The whole concept of "replacement" or "supplementation" is fraught with non-sequiturs and risks.
The classic case is, of course, Vitamin D. When the body down-regulates 25-D it does so because it already has too much of the metabolite. Giving the body even more is entirely the incorrect approach.
You should not assume that just because your body is "low" in something that you should be adding a supplement. In the presence of a controlled metabolite, 'deficiency' can be a non-sequitur."
..Trevor..
Glyconutrients
It is very seductive to believe that what we eat can improve our health. I haven't seen anybody cured of chronic disease by diets or supplements, and I have gone through report after report of 'miracle cures'.
But now we can actually define the word "cure" because a group of deseperately ill people have been returned to health by the MP. It has given us a totally new understanding of the word "health," too.
The body is an amazingly complex thing. It is time we faced up to that complexity, and discarded the notions that appear so seductive because of their simplicity.
..Trevor..
Wheatgrass is a supplement. It's not a substance your grandmother would recognize. 
Rye Pollen
Rye pollen is known in Europe as Cernilton or Cernitin. Rye pollen extract has been used for the treatment of chronic prostatitis. There are a number of compound in rye pollen including cyclic hydroxamic acid which prevents the growth of prostate cells. Other compounds include stigmasterol, quercetin, and cernitin.
Juicing
Juicing produces a concentration of nutrients that is equivalent to taking a supplement and can increase the concentrations of individual ingredients to a level which your body cannot handle.
Green drinks and colostrum are among the many supplements suggested with other protocols and, of course, they do nothing to resolve Th1 inflammation.
Powdered whey is a dietary supplement that often contains unlabeled vitamin D. If you have difficulty eating enough protein, you may suppplement with vitamin D-free whey powder but don't take more than the amount that would equal the recommended amount of daily protein for your body size and gender. Protein drinks made with whey and no added vitamin D are okay.
-Best not to add things like hemp seed oil and or flax seed oil etc. to your smoothies. They are powerful antioxidants and can interfere with the MP. Juicing large quantities of fruit and veggies is not recommended because of the large volume of antioxidant properties that it will contain. (like taking supplements). ~VEZ
See Eat real food
Last edited on Sun Oct 5th, 2008 04:10 by
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Aussie Barb
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Posted: Tue Dec 6th, 2005 18:55 |
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Cholestyramine (Questran) or CSM
This supplement is part of another treatment protocol and it is touted to relieve symptoms supposedly caused by the release of toxins as the Lyme spirochete is killed. We have no information that it does not interfere with the Marshall Protocol meds. And patients' apparent contradictory response to it certainly raises questions.
This reference says that Questran may interfere with the action of tetracyclines.
Cholestyramine is known to interfere with absorption of fat-soluble vitamins. As P.Bear R.N. said, CSM can be tough to take and there are side effects.
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| Depression| 24+ years not Dx| MP Aug04| ABC of MP| MP Search|
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Posted: Wed Dec 7th, 2005 03:49 |
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Essential Fatty Acids (EFAs)
Primrose Oil (EPO)
"One of the sarcoidosis patients wrote to the manufacturer, and was told that Primrose Oil has a significant quantity of Vitamin D in it. An excessive quantity, in fact. Enough to disable the immune system from killing the L-form bacteria.
IMO you don't 'need' EFA's (essential fatty acids) - you need to throw off your Th1 disease. When you are healthy again you will not be interested in (or need) any of these supplements."
..Trevor..
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Posted: Wed Mar 8th, 2006 06:47 |
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Members experiences with supplements
-Whooppee - just received the last lot of 25-hydroxy Vit D test results and they are finally going down - 100nmol/L. Meg, thanks for your help on this challenge for me. I had been taking just one supplement - Pine Bark - and obviously it was causing the problem of raising my D levels in some way, shape or form. Just goes to show how one tiny element can affect the outcome. I am herxing much more strongly now and will delay upping my second antibiotic until these levels reduce more. ~Moxie
-I wanted to share that at one point in the MP when my sleep was especially bad, I took a simple one ingredient natural product to help with sleep. After two horrible days of terrible symptoms, finally my husband reminded me that the only thing that had changed was the supplement. I stopped it immediately and the symptoms calmed down. This supplement was not on the no list of things to take and I thought it would be harmless, but there's no way to know how our bodies will react to the supplements on the MP. I had taken it in the past with no problem. ~DrVikkie
-I have taken many different supplements in the past that have helped me, but nothing is helping like the MP to get the digestion, gall bladder, urinary tract, etc working the way they were meant to before the infectious agents took over. I understand your wanting to take the products that are supposed to be so good for you, but I would definitely hold off and let your body start working more efficiently on it's own. We don't have a clue how well our bodies could actually function given the chance.
-While writing up the summary of my sarcoidosis history, I was reminded that my hip pain occurred in Japan and waned outside of Japan. I have therefore experimented a bit with the food I am eating in Japan. I am rarely eating out, but prepare all by myself. I used a curry spice almost everyday, which I have left out for the past 10 days and the hip pain is almost gone, and this after persisting for many months. On http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curcumin I read about curcumin and its effects. ~Evelin
(See below re curcumin)
-Thanks for your reminder about the problem with taking supplements, Meg. You were right. Since I discontinued the supplements the immunopathology has dramatically increased. It is obvious that they were interferring with the MP and I was losing valuable time in my healing progress. My blood tests show that my 25D level only increased from 9 to 10 however, so if I only went by that, it would seem there is no problem with the supplement. This was a good reminder to re-read some of the information you provide on this site. I guess I'm so anxious to feel better that when the immunopathology diminished, I wanted to believe it was because I had killed most of the bugs and things would just continue to get better. I'll try to be more patient and keep hanging in there.
Bring on the pain! ~Mae
Last edited on Tue Jun 24th, 2008 07:05 by Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Mar 9th, 2006 02:46 |
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Glucosamine and chondroitin w/MSM
Glucosamin and chondroitin w/MSM won't repair your joints and may inhibit resolution of your joint inflammation. The MP will resolve your joint pain and restore joint function.
The following information is in the paper Biochemistry of Lyme Disease: Borrelia burgdorferi Spirochete/Cyst
by Prof. Robert W. Bradford and Henry W. Allen
Carbohydrates Consumed by Lyme Spirochete
An effort to determine which carbohydrates Bb consumes revealed that the organism utilizes the monosaccharides glucose, mannose and N-acetylglucosamine, as well as the disaccharides maltose and chitobiose.
A popular treatment for arthritis includes the administration of chondroitin sulfate and N-acetylglucosamine. If the arthritis is Lyme-induced, N-acetylglucosamine is contraindicated.
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Aussie Barb
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Posted: Sat May 13th, 2006 07:57 |
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Chelation
We have seen no evidence that the folk in our cohort who have undergone chelation during their MP treatment have progressed faster, indeed, I seen some who have dropped out and stayed with the chelation (palliative) approach. When the immune system has been restored by the MP, the heavy metals will be properly excreted without any specific intervention.
Palliative or curative therapy is a decision which must be made by the individual.
It is not possible to design a chelation agent that will target mercury, for example, and not target other bivalent metals, including iron and calcium, to some degree. There is very little selectivity in the chelating agents, despite what the manufacturers would have you believe. A bivalent metal is a bivalent metal.
..Trevor..
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Posted: Tue Aug 8th, 2006 09:01 |
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Herbs and spices as supplements
It is okay to use herbs in cooking. Avoid herbs taken in a capsule as a supplement.
"'Natural' herbs, oils, etc, have an effect on the body because they contain chemicals. The problem is, nobody knows exactly what chemicals they contain, because there is no requirement to have them tested or quality-controlled, or even listed on the label. The FDA controls only pharmaceutical drugs. Truth is, very few herbs are 'natural.' The natural products have been dried, crushed, compounded, concentrated, by a manufacturing process.
Please stay away from Herbal remedies that claim to affect the immune system. You have no control over what you are taking, nor have you any real idea whether what you describe as "herx" really is immunopathology, or whether the drug is harming you."
..Trevor..
Rosemary and sage
Here is a picture of 1,25-D as it docks into the VDR, along with a superimposition of the diterpene 'Carnosic Acid', contained in Rosemary and Sage, as well as other herbs.
Carnosic Acid will displace 1,25-D (and Benicar) from the VDR in a concentration-dependent manner.
It is a total antagonist of the VDR. It will therefore suppress innate immunity.
The calculated affinity is high, at Ki = 54 nanomolar, about the same as the less effective ARBs and Statins. You only need tens of milligrams of it to mess things up...
..Trevor..
Curcumin, Tumeric, Curry and Mustard
Some spices, which are produced from plants, can have a chemical effect upon the immune system. Significant use of curcumin or its derivatives, for example, should be avoided while on the MP. This article (pdf) said, "Twelve scientific, peer-reviewed publications since 1999 suggest that curcumin, the major yellow pigment in tumeric, curry and mustard, may potentiate apoptosis or inhibit growth of selected cancer cells or function as a COX-2 inhibitor several in-vitro and animal models."
Wheatgrass is a supplement. It's not a substance your grandmother would recognize.
..Trevor..
Olive leaf extract
This supplement is often encouraged in CFS as an anti-viral, may have vit Ds present based upon the the following table found in a patent application. Avoid these plant leaf extracts to be safe. I looked into the olive oil, and it should be fine. The leaves would be the problem. ~P.B.
From:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5776461-description.html
The amount of vitamin D in the leaves of each plant was calculated from a standard curve using 25-D standard for the protein binding assay and 1,25-(OH)2 D standard for the receptor binding assay. The results that were obtained are summarized below in Table 1.
25-D/OTHER VITAMIN D 1,25-(OH)2 D
PLANT NAMES
(ng/g DRY LEAF)
Solanum 118.4 10.0
Cestrum 55.7 14.8
Alfalfa 46.8 21.3
Olive 74.3 12.0
Cinnamon
Cinnamon is a trendy supplement right now. If it lowers blood sugar, cholesterol and triglycerides 20% as touted, it may have other effects on the body also. I'm not qualified to assess the studies or understand the biochemistry. But I do know that there are many wonderful claims about various supplements.
Our recommendation remains to limit supplementation to avoid unknown interactions with the MP meds and the immune system. A modified or low carbohydrate diet is what we suggest. Cholesterol, triglycerides and even blood sugar should normalize as the inflammation resolves.
My cholesterol and/or triglycerides are very high. Will the Marshall Protocol help?
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Garlic
The Allicin in garlic is a natural antibiotic.
In vitro mechanism of inhibition of bacterial cell growth by allicin
Garlic tablets may interact unpredictably with MP meds and could be potentially detrimental. Eating moderate amounts of garlic as part of your diet should be okay.
Grapefruit juice is okay when you're on the MP. Anyone interested in drug interactions with grapefruit juice will want to read this article in Pharmacy Times.
Grapefruit seed extract is a powerful, broad-spectrum antimicrobial and anti-viral agent. - is contraindicated on MP.
"Lemon-Aide"
I strongly discourage the use of (various lemon, juice and oil concoctions) if you want to regain your health, which is what this site is all about.
Just think, if this simple potion was such a magic solution, would not there be a heck of a lot of folks out there walking around healthy again?
The whole concept of 'toxicity' has failed, IMO, and needs to be revised in light of the knowledge we have developed about the bacterial pathogenesis of these diseases.
..Trevor..
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Posted: Mon Dec 25th, 2006 14:32 |
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Antioxidants
The talk about oxidants and anti-oxidants is a model. A way of trying to describe what a group of people thought was going on in the body. These days, about the only ones who continue to espouse it are those selling supplements. Molecular discovery has long made the whole concept look ridiculous.
The whole premise of the study "Antioxidants may protect against tick-borne illness" is total and utter baloney.
If anti-oxidants cured these diseases there would be a heck of a lot of supplement-guzzling folks who would have recovered, by random selection alone. That doesn't happen, because many of these petrie-dish-poking researchers don't have a clue what they are actually trying to achieve in-vivo.
I took high-dose Vitamin E and Beta Carotene for the decade of the 1990s. They made me feel better, but did not arrest the advance of disease in any way.
Based on what I now understand about the intra-phagocytic bacteria, the elimination of Vitamin D from the diet (something which is impossible to simulate in a petrie dish) is the factor which most readily enables the immune system to recognize, and kill, these pathogens.
The second most important thing, activating the VDR (and other receptors) with Benicar, is similarly not available in the environment of a petrie dish. Nasty pathogens like Rickettsia do not just roll over and die. Nor do Mycobacteria or Borrelia. They have to be digested and their DNA broken into little pieces by the phagocytes, something which I am certain that antioxidants will never achieve.
..Trevor..
Antioxidant supplements are not necessary
A healthy diet which includes fruits, vegetables and nuts will be full of antioxidants.
Foods high in antioxidants
Fruits: Cranberries, blueberries, and blackberries
Vegetables: Beans, artichokes and Russet potatoes
Nuts: Pecans, walnuts and hazelnuts
Broccoli and spinach are righ in alpha lipoic acid and somewhat lower amounts are found in peas, tomatoes and Brussel sprouts.
Goji berries
"When I look at all the stuff written about the 'nutritional' benefits of Goji berries, and I see they are part of eastern herbal medicines, I have to advise you to stay away from them, the ingredients I have seen listed on some of the suppliers' websites, and the list of immune conditions they are supposed to 'cure', make me draw back in alarm." ..Trevor..
Excerpt from The antioxidant myth: a medical fairy tale
05 August 2006
NewScientist.com news service
Lisa Melton
You name it, if it's an antioxidant, we'll swallow it by the bucket-load. According to some estimates around half the adults in the US take antioxidant pills daily in the belief they promote good health and stave off disease. We have become antioxidant devotees. But are they doing us any good? Evidence gathered over the past few years shows that at best, antioxidant supplements do little or nothing to benefit our health. At worst, they may even have the opposite effect, promoting the very problems they are supposed to stamp out.
Since the early 1990s scientists have been putting these compounds through their paces, using double-blind randomised controlled trials - the gold standard for medical intervention studies. Time and again, however, the supplements failed to pass the test. True, they knock the wind out of free radicals in a test tube. But once inside the human body, they seem strangely powerless. Not only are they bad at preventing oxidative damage, they can even make things worse. Many scientists are now concluding that, at best, they are a waste of time and money. At worst they could be harmful. The conclusion is becoming clear: whatever is behind the health benefits of a diet rich in fruits and vegetables, you cannot reproduce it by taking purified extracts or vitamin supplements. "Just because a food with a certain compound in it is beneficial, it does not mean a nutraceutical [with the same compound in] is," said Paul Coates, who works in the Office of Dietary Supplements at NIH.
For now, the advice is simple. "Stick to flavonoid-rich foods, red wine in moderation, tea, fruits and vegetables," says Halliwell. "Don't start taking high-dose supplements or heavily fortified foods, until we know more."
Last edited on Mon Mar 17th, 2008 20:16 by Foundation Staff
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Posted: Sun Feb 4th, 2007 05:38 |
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Adrenal support supplements
Supplements are not necessary to support adrenal function. My opinion is to just eat a healthy diet.
Adrenal insufficiency is common in TH1 infection, and giving replacements that act more "downstream" on the hormonal cascade will not cure or even help much. The body has such a complex homeostasis that one intervention can have myriad consequences to the H-P-A axis.
If at all possible it is better to just address the root cause of the problem, infection and it's elevated 1,25-D, and the hormonal disruption will slowly right itself with time and healing IMO. I have been through "adrenal support", and it did not help me. ~P.B. R.N.
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Posted: Fri Feb 9th, 2007 09:32 |
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Melatonin
Melatonin supports immune system functioning and low levels are immunosuppressive. See Human pineal physiology and functional significance of melatonin.
Humans do not "get melatonin from the sun." Melatonin is produced by the pineal gland in a process which occurs more actively during the night.
Melatonin has gotten a lot of hype in the past few years because it began to be sold in over-the-counter supplements. There is a commercial interest in promoting these. ~Belinda
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Normally, the production of melatonin by the pineal gland is inhibited by light and permitted by darkness. For this reason melatonin has been called "the hormone of darkness". Avoidance of sunlight will not inhibit the production of melatonin. The production of melatonin diminishes as we age. Is this 'normal' or a result of Th1 inflammation?
According to wikipedia, "Melatonin is an immunoregulator that enhances T cell production somewhat. When taken in conjunction with calcium, it is a very potent immunostimulator of the T cell response. Due to these immunoregulatory effects, it is used as an adjuvant in many clinical protocols; conversely, the increased immune system activity may aggravate autoimmune disorders. The body of research is overwhelmingly supportive of the claim that melatonin interacts with the immune system. Melatonin's true role in disease treatment is unknown." Here is more evidence of the importance of avoiding supplements.
Melatonin appears to have some use against circadian rhythm sleep disorders and delayed sleep phase syndrome and may be a safer palliative then other sleep aids for intolerable insomnia.~MegLast edited on Mon Feb 19th, 2007 05:44 by Foundation Staff
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Posted: Mon Feb 26th, 2007 22:49 |
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Iodine: A Lot to Swallow (click here)
Fairly modest increases in iodine intake have been reported to cause thyroid dysfunction, particularly hypothyroidism.
Conclusion
The possibility that high-dose iodine/iodide can relieve certain common conditions is intriguing. Considering the positive anecdotal reports, an empirical trial of iodine/iodide therapy, based on the clinical picture, seems reasonable. The case has not been made, however, that the average person should markedly increase his or her iodine intake in an attempt to saturate the tissues with iodine. Nor has the case been made that the iodine-load test can provide reliable guidance regarding the need for iodine therapy. Thyroid function should be monitored in patients receiving more than 1 mg of iodine per day.
Alan R. Gaby, MD
Iodine is available in many plant foods, but the amount depends on the availability of iodine in the soil where the food is grown. You only need trace amounts of iodine, but it is available even in some meats, such as turkey breast. Iodine deficiency is much less common in the US than 50 years ago because of the widespread distribution of foods grown in iodine-sufficient areas.
Furthermore, iodized salt is what we have used in the US for decades, in areas where garden or agricultural soil is low in iodine. ~ Belinda
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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2007 16:08 |
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Vitamin B12 (cobalamine)
"There is a big problem with the assumption that "Food makes the man." It doesn't. In fact, when the body starts down-regulating hormones and metabolites the body is usually doing that for a reason. The whole concept of "replacement" or "supplementation" is fraught with non-sequiturs and risks.
The classic case is, of course, Vitamin D. When the body down-regulates 25-D it does so because it already has too much of the metabolite. Giving the body even more is entirely the incorrect approach.
I do not know enough about Vitamin B12 to determine that it is not similar. You should not assume that just because your body is "low" in something that you should be adding a supplement. In the presence of a controlled metabolite, 'Deficiency' can be a non-sequitur. You have to know more about the underlying metabolite, and I haven't seen anything definitive about what B12 supplementation achieves at the molecular level to be at all confident of its asserted actions."
..Trevor..
Supplemental Vitamin B12 may be needed if you have a documented deficiency such as pernicious anemia or if you are a Vegan.
"There are other possible causes of cobalamine (Vitamin B12) deficiency, but the term pernicious anemia is properly applied only to conditions with a gastric mucosal defect that results in insufficient intrinsic factor.
To my knowledge the only way to definitively diagnose pernicious anemia is with multiple biopsies of the stomach. This may have been done while you were sedated and you might not remember they did it.
Your B-12 levels may be slow to drop, and to be safe I would continue with the oral or sublingual form at least once a week or whatever your physician has advised. I think periodic testing of serum cobalamin, and perhaps folate, methylmalonic acid and homocystine is a good idea too.
I found that sublingual methylcobalamine worked well to bring up my somewhat low level a number of years ago, and I think that sublingual is the way to go with true pernicious anemia. (or injections if doc advises).
I would recommend the methyl or hydroxy forms over the cyano form. I used methyl Jarrow formulation.
One thing of interest is that people who have problems with B-12 should not use nitrous oxide as an anesthetic.
One can hope that the MP will heal the stomach and cure the cause of pernicious anemia, and perhaps that is one explanation of what you describe if you are sufficiently healed. I have no good reason to think it won't resolve, but I think it is too early to risk not using simple replacement just to be on the safe side. If you are indeed cured, you may be the first person in history to have true pernicious anemia reversed. The standard of care is always replacement for life. ~P.Bear R.N.
Elevated serum B12
Elevated B12 is associated with myeloproliferative diseases, renal failure and liver diseases.
Last edited on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 07:35 by Foundation Staff
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Posted: Mon Aug 20th, 2007 03:33 |
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Glutathione
Glutathione is a nonessential amino acid that has physiologic functions. It is a powerful antioxidant that causes many physiologic functions within the body, ie. Forms the tripeptide GSH, and GSH S transferases in the liver, assists in transporting amino acids across membranes, acts as a neurotransmitter and has a direct effect on the stomach lining just to name a few.
These functions are not quantifiable and can possess capabilities to ineffectuate some of the chemistry going on to dismantle the causation of your disease, CWD organisms.
Your body has all the necessary requirements to carry on these functions in the presence of a balanced diet. Placing additional chemistry into the mix is unwise and could be a deterrent to the positive outcome you are striving for on the MP.
The standards for the MP, put together as a result of years of scientific research, are very clear that the MP requires specific guidelines regarding the use of supplements and certain medication. The body responds to specific internal environmental changes in an exponential way meaning each response can lead to another etc. etc.
As there are hundreds of supplements available you can understand that Dr. Marshall can not explore the affects of them all with his extensive scientific genome modeling experience. Since there are many success stories using the protocol with respect to healing these Th1 inflammatory diseases is it easy to understand that precedent must take center stage and the protocol followed according to the guidelines. ~VEZ, RN
"We have not observed the need for any detoxification of the liver (or any other organ) Glutathione has widespread effects throughout the body, many of which are not well documented. It is not a necessary part of the MP, and therefore is deprecated. N-acetyl-L-cysteine (NAC) is a precursor to glutathione.
(Protocols that attempt to raise the level of glutathione) are looking at the effects of the Th1 bacterial infection, rather than going after the root cause."
..Trevor..
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 02:22 |
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Potassium
Do not take potassium supplements without your doctor's approval and periodic testing
If you have kidney inflammation (it may be subclinical), you may retain too much potassium due to renal resorption which could be dangerous. You may not notice any symptoms so your doctor should do a blood test to check your potassium level periodically if you have this problem.
Related FAQs:
My kidney function tests are worse since I started the MP. What should I do?
My potassium is elevated. What should I do?
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 02:33 |
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'Natural' antibiotics
Colloidal silver is touted to be a 'natural' antibiotic and it's use is controversial. There is considerable doubt that it kills bacteria in the human body but if it does, there is the possibility that its use may cause pleomorphic intracellular bacteria to form which would be counterproductive.
Colloidal silver can have widespread effects in the body. See, for example, this article about a man whose skin turned blue after using it.
Last edited on Fri Dec 21st, 2007 20:34 by Foundation Staff
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 02:39 |
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Supplements that boost the immune system
Supplements touted to 'boost' the immune system should be avoided because your immune system is overactive and does not need 'boosting'.
Gamma globulin
Gamma globulin injections are technically supplements because they are intended to supplement an apparent deficiency. They affect the immmune system and we do not recommend them while on the MP.
"The immune system needs all the help it can get to steadily kill the pathogens causing Th1 disease. We therefore warn people that even treatments they have been using for a long time may interfere negatively with the immune system. Your whole body changes while you are on the MP. It is clear that the IgG therapy did not cure you in 15 years, so I am a little confused about why you persist with it?
..Trevor..
-What I can say from a personal level is that my IgG was just about 0 when I started on the MP and stayed that way for the first 3 years of the MP, and the doc assumed it was an inherited glitch. However, it had jumped up nicely at the last appointment. ~Chris
-Virginiagal: A few years back my total IgE was over 800. My most recent test was about 2000 IU/ml. As I was reading up on potential causes of high total IgE, I came across quite a bit of research suggesting various cyst-forming pathogens (bacteria, fungi, viruses and etc.) and a genetic predisposistion. At least one abstract seems to indicate a skewed Th1/Th2 disease process:
Immunol Rev. 2005 Feb;203:244-50.
Hyper-IgE syndromes. Grimbacher B, Holland SM, Puck JM.
Department Rheumatology and Clinical Immunology, Medical School, University of Freiburg, Freiburg, Germany.
"The etiology of HIES is still unresolved. Recent research points toward a skewed T helper 1 (Th1) cell/Th2 cell ratio and the involvement of chemokines. Therapy for HIES is directed at prevention and management of infections by using sustained systemic antibiotics and antifungals along with topical therapy for eczema and drainage of abscesses." The full abstract can be found here.
Allergy shots
This (immunotherapy) stimulates the immune system. Allergy shots are to be avoided while on the Marshall Protocol.
Glyconutrients
Glyconutrients are not relevant to Th1 inflammation. This is psuedo-science meant to convince you that your diet is deficient and to sell you supplements. Understanding Scientific Studies
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 02:47 |
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Flagyl
Flagyl profoundly affects the human Vitamin D metabolism, and all the enzymes associated with it. Patients might think they are 'herxing' but they are just being sick. They get some relief, sometimes, because it takes the body a while to try and get the innate immune system working again after Flagyl has totally shut it down. This is a dangerous drug, in the doses it is used in Lyme therapy. I have spoken to the mother of a Lymie who was paralyzed by it - for weeks.
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Posted: Mon Sep 3rd, 2007 02:51 |
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Bromelain
DO NOT TAKE BROMELAIN DURING THE MP
1. Its total effect on the body is not well known (it interacts with many functions)
2. It is a potent anticoagulant, and too much anticoagulation can cause illness up to, and including, death
3. It affects the immune system in undefined ways
Dr. Trevor Marshall, Ph.D.
Related FAQ:
Is it safe to take anticoagulants while on the Marshall Protocol?
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Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2007 05:05 |
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Rife machine
Trevor: There are many different types of 'machines' which are called 'Rife'. Which specific type do you have? Does it have a light-tube to help generate the fields?
Marian: No. It is like a box, and has two metal sticks with a wire each connected to the box. those you take in each hand, then you set the sequence and the kind of electric pulses for specific bug or illness. You can also put your feet in some metal squares. People I know are marveled by the machine. I have no felt improvement in my ulcers, nor the joint pain.
Trevor: Yes indeed. That type of equipment is OK to use with the MP as it is essentially a placebo, it does nothing.
The next step towards functionality are the 'Rife' units which attach electrodes to the skin and then put stimulating impulses. These are also OK with the MP, essentially a placebo, although in their manifestation as "massage units" in the Far East, and as "TENS" units in Europe, these can sometimes be used to ease pain a little. I used a variety of electronic-stimulus massagers, bought in Japan and Korea, to ease my pain during the decade of the 90's.
The 'Rife' units which you should not use with the MP are those which have a flash tube to generate high magnetic fields. The high frequency of the flash tube is going to affect the way your eyes and brain works. You will need all your brain functioning as you recover by killing off the nasty bugs with the MP
"I think the machines confuse the brain with the variable frequency pulsed light (or the pulsed electrical stimuli for the direct-connect variety).
Since Dr Brian Fallon's study determined that the amygdala of the brain was most affected in the chronic disease, it seems reasonable to me that the amygdala could become saturated by the single frequency stimulus and its dysfunction becomes less of a problem.
As you heal more on the MP you will see what I mean - the whole psyche calms down and things become clearer. The problem is the confusion of sensory signals while folks are sick and the hypersensitivity to otherwise ordinary stimuli."
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