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Meg Mangin R.N.
Former Team Member
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Posted: Sat Oct 30th, 2004 19:10 |
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Why isn't the MP working? What am I doing wrong?
The most common answer to this question it that folks do not always recognize immunopathology. You may be experiencing symptoms that are less than you have expected or less than what you have experienced as disease symptoms. They may seem subtle in comparison and, therefore, discounted. Please see: How To Identify Immunopathology (Herx)
When someone tells us that the Marshall Protocol does not seem to be doing what it "should" we try to find out why. Your answers to a few questions might help you identify any aspects that you may have overlooked up till now. In your progress report, please supply us with the pertinent 'details required' in order to better help us help you problem-solve.
All aspects of the MP are Essential to it's efficacy.
Please check these aspects:
"The 25-D seems to be the most critical factor as to whether the immune system is able to start working. Any level of 25-D above about 20ng/ml is likely to be acting as an immunosuppressant, with an action very similar to that of corticosteroids." Dr. Trevor Marshall, Ph.D.
Avoiding Vitamin D ingestion: Are you diligently avoiding all foods that contain Vitamin D? Have you had your 25D retested to see if it has come down? You won't start killing the bacteria in earnest until your 25D drops. So be careful that immunopathology may creep up on you, as stores of D gradually drop. Check your diet for D and to see if using any supplements that may contain D. (may be listed or unlisted)
Medications and supplements: Have you discontinued all unnecessary RX or over-the-counter medications and supplements? (Please list all the medications & supplements you are ongoing in your signature line.) See Should I stop taking any of my medications?
Benicar: Are you taking Benicar 40mg every six hours around the clock, never missing a dose? Taking Benicar 20 mg every 3 hours during the day and then 40 mg before and after sleep may help the immune system function better.
People taking Benicar 40mg every 6hrs report they feel better and have more immunopathology. Increasing Benicar to every six hours may dampen some symptoms and help the immune system function better so you will experience immune system reactions. Therefore, it can do two things- make the good days/times better and the immunopathology days/times stronger.
Antibiotics: - If it is less than 2 weeks since you began the antibiotic: It can sometimes take a couple of weeks for a new antibiotic to kick in or it can kick in at any time. It pays to be cautious and not increase the dosage before immunopathology is felt within the first 2 weeks, and assessed as tolerable.
You may also need to extend the time between doses to perhaps 72H or more to see if further decay of the abx will provoke immunopatholgoy. See 3 day dosing explanation here...
If you assess that you have done all, you can move up to the next level, and so on.. till you find a level or abx that will make a difference. - Check that your meds are kept fresh and not expired.
Quercetin: Are you using quercetin? It may be preventing immunopathology. Please read Quercetin before taking.
Steroids: If you have been taking Prednisone, the immunosuppressive effects of prednisone are sometimes felt for months after weaning so that could be part of your problem. Patience is the answer.
Changes: Has there been any change in foods ingested or sun/lights exposure, Exercise, meds? A fluctuation of hormones may be caused by these changes and could create a change in immune system response and/or symptoms.
Low Carb diet: Some folks have reported they have more immunopathology symptoms when they follow the recommended low carbohydrate diet. See Low carbohydrate diet and Food Facts.
Antibiotics may not be perfusing well to affected tissues. Mild exercise or hot water can increase circulation. However, if your symptoms are tolerable, these actions may increase them to level of intolerable. Please use common sense and don't go to extremes.
Directions for a hot bath
It is okay to take a hot bath in order to try to increase tissue perfusion of the antibiotic/s and bacterial killing. Hot tub soaks work by dilating blood vessels and allowing for better perfusion of the antibiotic into tissues. This is particularly helpful if your inflammation is in tissues poorly perfused by blood like nerve, joint and skin. You should experience an increase in immunopathology because of this but your mileage will vary at all antibiotics doses.
If you decide to do this the best time is probably within the first 12 hours of antibiotic dosing when serum concentration is highest. Be sure that you do not raise your body temperature by more than a couple degrees and not over 100 degrees. Be careful also if you tend to get lightheaded or dizzy. You will need to take your temperature to be safe. Raising your body temperature too high could raise your blood pressure and could make you confused, nauseous, drowsy or dizzy. Hot tub temperatures are not to go above 104 degrees.
Food: Make sure you aren't eating foods that might interfere with the immune system. See A review of chlorogenic acid and genistein
Food slightly reduces blood levels of minocycline, but the effect is not significant. Unlike other tetracyclines, minocycline may be taken with or without food and is only slightly affected by meals containing dairy or calcium. If you have gastric upset, then you may take it with food. The gradual increase in dosage will guarantee that the intracellular bacteria are exposed to varying dosages to achieve the maximum affect.
Taking minocycline with dairy products may alter its absorption. Take this into consideration only if you need to eliminate any variable that might be affecting immunopathology. In that case, take your minocycline dose one hour before or two hours after consuming dairy products or other foods high in calcium. Otherwise, it is okay to take minocycline with food.
Light protection: Have you been avoiding sunlights and bright lights? Do you go outside during the daytime? How often? For how long? Do you cover up from head to toe when you cannot avoid going out during the day? Is your house darkened to 30 Lux?
NoIR glasses: Are you wearing NoIR sunglasses at all times, both indoors and outdoors? Do you wear them to watch TV and when you are on the computer? Do you wear them when facing bright oncoming headlights at night? Is your computer monitor brightness turned down?
See also How can I tell if the MP is working for me?
Related info:
Is there a right pace for the most effective healing on the Marshall Protocol?
Phase One guideline
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Nothing contained in this site is or should be considered, or used as a substitute for, medical advice, diagnosis or treatment by your physician.
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Aussie Barb
Research Team
| Joined: | Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 19525 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 20:25 |
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(filelink)
Dubious reports of MP failures
Q: I brought info about Marshall Protocol to our doctor who is also a naturopath. He refused to use Marshall Protocol saying that he had tried the program with three other patients and it had not worked. They had gotten much worse. Tried it for a long time with them and got no results? Any comments?
Reply:
This is the type of thing that the doctor would need to discuss with Trevor Marshall. After all, we don't know what illnesses the patients had, what problems they experienced, whether or not the MP was followed carefully, whether or not the doctor discussed the problems the patients were experiencing with Trevor Marshall and other medical professionals at our Health Professionals forum, and so on. If you are interested in trying the MP, maybe it is time to find a different doctor? Margo.
So many 'alternative' physicians are into supplements and hormone replacement therapies that suppress the immune system, that they are doomed to fail if they do not follow the Marshall Protocol as written. Another big problem with some docs is that they have no understanding of the protocol and do not give explicit instructions about light avoidance and dietary changes. Some docs and patients also can not handle the idea that you have to feel worse before you feel better, and abandon treatment far too soon. Some patients do not have "the right stuff" to succeed. best, P.B. How do I know if I have the 'right stuff' to be successful with the Marshall Protocol?
Dr Trevor Marshall wrote:
I have never spoken to any doctor who has had three failures, nor have the failed patients reported problems to the moderators here. MP failures are very rare. AFAIK they are non-existent.
In other words, I think you are being told a "tall story," at the very least.
Keep looking for a Doctor who will try to help you.
..Trevor..
It is the patient's responsibility to see that the prescribing doctor is following the MP correctly.
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| Depression| 24+ years not Dx| MP Aug04| ABC of MP| MP Search|
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