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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Wed Apr 27th, 2005 22:10 |
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I've developed a rash/itching/skin problem. What should I do?
"Skin eruptions" is listed in this article as a common adverse reaction to tetracyclines. People on the Marshall Protocol have reported exacerbation of skin lesions or acne, minor skin rashes and severe cutaneous reactions. These can be similar to previous skin rashes or entirely new.
Dr Marshall says of the skin: "Every Th1 patient has inflammation in their skin. Dr Alan Cantwell observed many years ago that these bacteria loved the sweat glands, and suggested that a punch biopsy ought to be good enough to confirm Th1 inflammation. Take a look at:
"Cantwell AR: The Eccrine Sweat Gland as a possible Focus of Infection with Acid-Fast Cell Wall Deficient Bacteria. JOIMR 2003;1(1):1"
Shingles (Click on link to see information)
Immunopathology
Since we know that we are dealing with intracellular bacteria in the Th1 diseases, the logical reason for these 'adverse reactions' when an antibiotic or antibiotic combination is effective is the immunopathology.
Immunopathology is expected to cause fluctuations in your blood tests. It is expected and encouraged that patients on the MP will be monitored by their primary care provider who will order tests appropriate to monitor general health. You may like to ask Dr to keep an eye on your thyroid levels.
This SarcInfo thread, Skin sarc, what does it look like? has many links to photos of skin lesions.
Neurological immunpathology that affects the brain can cause various skin sensations.
Reduce immunopathology
Relief of immunopathology symptoms is obtained by increasing the frequency of Benicar and discontinuing or altering the antibiotic schedule. Please see My immune reaction is too strong. What should I do?
Or you may need to proceed more slowly with lower doses of antibiotics. Let us know if you need help modifying your antibiotics regime or Benicar schedule in order to manage your immune system reactions. I'm eager to get well. How can I speed up my progress on the MP?
Quercetin: may be helpful once established on MP
If your cutaneous immunopathology is tolerable, you can ignore it, or, you may wish to treat it palliatively until it resolves, while continuing the MP.
Over the counter relief of itching
Itching is the most common complaint with a skin rash. Benadryl is an over-the-counter antihistamine that will relieve itchiness. The oral medication causes sleepiness so it might be contraindicated during the daytime but it can be particularly useful at bedtime.
-Over-the-counter topical preparations to reduce itching are sometimes helpful.
-Benadryl cream has worked better for some than cortisone cream for just about any kind of skin lesion, whether it's something that "just" itches, or something that is irritated.
-If using a hydrocortisone OTC use it sparingly. Tissues treated with steroids do not heal well and all steroids are absorbed systemically.
Prescription oral medication to relieve itching
You may get relief from intolerable itching with Cyproheptadine, a prescription antihistamine with a side effect of drowsiness.
Topical steroids
Topical steroid creams are available OTC and may be needed to relieve intolerable itching. Use them sparingly.
If intolerable itching is not helped by OTC steroid cream, talk to your doctor about a prescription strength topical corticosteroid preparation and use it sparingly.
All topical corticosteroids are absorbed through the skin and enter the circulation. See for example this report of a person who lost their femoral head joint (hip) due to steroidal cream being applied to the face:
http://tinyurl.com/5ebwu
All steroids are bad in high dose - they differ only in their efficacy vs dose characteristics. So if you have to use them, then please do it very sparingly. Additionally, any skin that you apply the creams to will not be doing any healing, as the steroid will heavily suppress the immune system in the region it is applied.
..Trevor..
Itching due to liver disease
I remember when I was a child, my grandma used to tell me not to scratch my skinned knees but to be happy the itching was a sign of healing.
You may not have realized that intense itching can be secondary to liver disease. That doesn't help any with the itching, but I know I got through it by focusing on itching as a sign my liver was getting well.
Here is some interesting information from a researcher who is investigating how liver-related itching is mediated in the brain.
Avoid toxic exposures
I would suggest that the patient ensure that they avoid any other toxic exposure such as cleaning products, chemicalized foods, unnecessary meds supplements etc. plus adjust lifestyle to support the process. ie adequate rest, fresh foods, water. ~Dr. Blaney
See:
Candidiasis (yeast infection)
Scroll down for information about other skin problems and suggested remedies.
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Dec 1st, 2005 01:19 |
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(filelink)
Other skin problems and suggestions for OTC remedies
Itchy skin
Benadryl cream helps the bits that aren't raw. A little hydrocortisone on a few places to make life bearable, but as little as possible. Zyrtec daily helps the itch, especially at night. ~Julia
The thing that finally calmed my face itch down was washing with soap and water and a cream called Florasone (homeopathic for eczema). ~Prugg21
-I have had a skin rash on my hands a couple of times since starting the MP, that was similar to yours by the sound of it. I found that a low dose of antihistamine helped to reduce the itching. I also used a natural moisturiser containing oatmeal, apparently oats are quite soothing for skin rashes. You can put some oats in a small cloth bag (or an old sock/pantyhose) and put it in the bath, or use it under the shower. ~Mel (Shadowfeet)
Dry, crusty skin
Sween makes a cream called Atrac-tain which contains urea and lactic acid to gently exfoliate the skin. It works remarkably well to remove crusty tissue and restore smooth skin. Try it on a small area first to make sure you are not sensitive to any of the ingredients. It can usually be purchase at a local pharmacy. ~Meg
Dry skin
The Body Shop has a dry olive oil mist that comes in a spray mister....I really like it. It's not quite as oily as olive oil. You may want to try it. I got mine online at bodyshop.com . ~ Aunt Diana
The chlorine in tap water can be very drying to the skin. You can purchase, for about $45, a charcoal filter for your shower-head which will filter it out. I think it makes a world of difference, you (and anybody else with dry skin) might want to give this a try. ~ Joy
Itchy scalp
I had lots of itching and breaking out (skin sarcs) got worse...all herx sxs. Benadryl cream (slathered entire areas) and 2% Ketoconzole cream (treated spots only) worked great to relieve the itching for me...also used Nizoral shampoo for an itchy scalp with total success. ~DNStog
Psoriasis
I've had lots of experience with psoriasis (which looks like sarc lesions, BTW). I've found a cream that helps it feel better. It's a combo of mango and shea butter that I buy at Walmart, made by Tree Hut. It's very soothing. ~Reenie
Raw skin lesions
I've had good results applying Campho-Phenique (for lip Cold Sores) on my raw skin lesions when not able to use Benadryl. This OTC medicine stops the itching and burning fast. ~Donna
Scars, skin tags and moles
I have several scars on my hands that have turned a little brown some of them even a little red. One of them has been there since I was a kid and it is even starting to level out it used to stick up a little bit. I've had fifteen or more skin tags fall off. I've had small moles disappear and my larger ones are about the size of my small ones. Mine all started improving in the higher up on phase two. I am having all kind of crazy stuff on my skin happen right now dark spots coming and going, rashes, try spots but none of it is lasting more than a couple weeks. ~Ival
About a month ago I had a mole on my arm just turn to a sort of sludge and dissapear. It felt itchy one day and I just wiped it off with a handkerchief. It left a small hole (about 6mm by 9mm), very clean on the bottom, and that healed up quickly and looks like it will leave no scar. I'm assuming my immune system took a dislike to this mole!
Just FYI, the other two chronic lesions on my arms have also healed since I started the MP (they were sores that scarred up, then they would crack open and bleed spontaneously and then erode to a sore again, over and over for about 3 years) There is a very little scarring there now, but it's just a mark and not the thick knob of scar that it used to form between breakouts. ~Knochen
A few days ago I noticed several small red, raw spots on the side of my face. I wondered how they got there. Only today did I recall that these are at the sites of some tiny moles (I prefer to call them beauty marks). ~Carol
Hypopigmentation
My experience with skin lesions goes back to when I was age six. I often had temporary hypopigmentation as a result of bouts with rashes.
The healing of your recent outbreak of psoriasis is a plausible explanation for your hypopigmentation. The Merk Manual explains that post-inflammatory hypopigmentation may be a result of healing of certain inflammatory disorders and spontaneous repigmentation may occur. I found that it might take a month or two, but my normal pigmentation always did return. Take heart in the fact that this is not always a permanent condition.
While your skin is still healing, cosmetics can make the altered pigmentation less noticeable. In fact, it's much easier to cover hypopigmentation appearing on the face than if it's on the hands, arms or legs.
I guess you will just have to wait and see, but in the early stages of healing, the hypopigmentation may look as if it is spreading. ~Belinda
Many of the white areas on my skin have disappeared! ~Alayne
See Vitilago
Dark pigment changes
the skin color around my jaw line and chin area was considerably darker than the rest of my face, close in color to what I've termed previously as a "pregnancy mask" around my forehead and left eye area. The "mask" became visible during my pregnancy in '73, '74 time frame and never left.
Also need to report that the skin on the knuckles of both hands is real dark in comparison to the skin on my fingers. And the skin on the top of both feet seems to be darker than the skin on my legs.
I had previously reported: Small dark spots have appeared on my lower legs with little grain-like round lumps in them. I felt what I initially thought was an insect bite.
My face is developing more pigment changes, likewise. the left side of my face, mainly forehead, brow area down to cheek is the darkest spot. I too have freckles which seem to be fading, now that I've taken a good look at them. ~Toni D
Blue and purple marks
I think you are the only one Ive read about that has the blue marks appear. I had taken 9 mos of doxy before MP and had been off it quite awhile before I relapsed and that was when I had the purple marks come up all accross the back of my hand. Didn't hurt and I hadn't hit my hand. Slowly faded to a brown then go away.
Then I did MP for last two yrs. About six weeks ago I was really pushing to the max herx and had one appear on my wrist near my pulse. It too is now almost gone. I looked online and found some websites that reported people in Europe with Borrellia having this type of skin issue. I remember I may have gotten mine in Spain when I lived there.
I found the explanation of the skin discoloration that can be from 3rd stage borrellia. See this link. I'm sorry that some of the pictures are so graphic but I wanted to show you to make sure your doctor is just thinking the skin changes you are having are just related to Mino. My purple marks occurred on knuckles of lt hand, wrist, very deliniated around the pulse area, toe, near joint and on back near spine. They have occurred pre MP and during severe herx and luckily have faded with MP. I don't know if they occur only in European Borrelia but I may have been exposed in Spain. I think this web info has a number of dermatology research groups connected to it, at least they seem to connect the word Herxheimer to this skin condition. I don't know exactly why they happen but I believe that staying the course on the MP will slowly clear the pathogens that cause this conditions. If your marks are similar maybe your Doc would be interested to look further at a connection to your Lyme. ~Melinda
Bruises, thin skin
Use of prednisone results in "thin skin" which tears and bruises with even slight trauma. This side effect is covered (with photos) in the this Johns Hopkins webpage.
Th1 inflammation can also causes bruises to heal slowly in people who are not on prednisone.
those very itchy, scabby patches are completely gone. ~Adrianne
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Aussie Barb
Research Team
| Joined: | Thu Jul 22nd, 2004 |
| Location: | Australia |
| Posts: | 19130 |
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Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2006 15:48 |
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filelink
Skin products for sensitive skin
Although the skin problem is likely due to immunopathology, as has been said, I wonder if part of the problem might be alleviated by switching ointments/lotions. Perhaps your immune system has temporarily gotten more sensitive to the ingredients in the products you are using and that is worsening things. I have some experience with this from the realm of multiple chemical sensitivities. I did not tolerate things with petroleum products (included in various medicated oinments too), which are in almost everything.
For years, I have been using 100% pure glycerin (from a drug store or health food store). This is the part of many of the best moisturizers that really does the most effective moisturizing. I then add about 1/3 to ½ part water and it makes a nice soothing moisturizer.
Another place with good products for the sensitive is Special Foods (web site: http://www.specialfoods.com and click on products or call 703-644-0991), which has a line of lip balms and lotions that only use beeswax, combined with a variety of oils. Their lip balm is still the only kind I can use and you can’t believe how valuable it has been to me over the years (my lips used to become cracked and bleed etc.. using every other product, until I discovered this).
For a lotion, they may be rather expensive and perhaps there would be other options for hypoallergenic lotions at a health food store if you want to order it (try needs.com) -- or just using a hypoallergenic vegetable oil?-- you could try more than one option. Also, in case you might have become sensitive to the soap you are using, there is a pure glycerin unscented soap at the health food store that I like called Clearly Natural glycerin soap.
Joyce Waterhouse, Ph.D.
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Trader Joe's has a Liquid Glycerin Soap and also a solid bar of Glycerin Soap. If you have a store near you, take a look for these options. ..Trevor..
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Aubrey Organics http://www.aubrey-organics.com/had some shampoos that I could use in place of soap, and at one point I was tolerating Kirk's Coco Castille bar soap. ~PB, RN
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See Unscented Products for those with MCS
MCS improvements
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| ABCofMP
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Meg Mangin R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 16:50 |
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[filelink]
Improvements in skin conditions
-Another great thing that is happening to me is my granulomatous raised red skin lesions that had covered 80% of by body has literally cleared up. It's flattened out and browned back to nearly my original olive skin colour.
All this has made me contact the skin and cancer foundation of Australia where I originally went and got my diagnosis of Sarcoid 8 years ago. I spoke to them and told them about all this. It flew over there heads but they are willing to see me because my case was very interesting for them at the time and I think they want to know how all this stuff works because I'm the living proof of the MP working.~Simon Elrahi
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