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NorCalJim
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 15:23 |
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I found this article to be interesting, another example of a possible novel bacterial mechanism in an "autoimmune" disease:
Bacteria In Cows' Milk May Cause Crohn's Disease
They're also assessing whether an antibiotic combination could be used as a treatment. Seems a bit like reinventing the wheel to me...
NorCalJim
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Ankylosing spondylitis Ph1Mar07 Ph2Jun07 Ph3Nov07, no other meds or supps 25D18 (May07) 25D16 (Feb08) NoIRs in/out cover up out
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Frans
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 15:48 |
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hmm, they say mannose stops macrophages from killing internalised E.coli. Is this something a little bit like capnine?
Sincerely, Frans
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Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
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tickbite
Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 16:38 |
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it's worse than you think. CWD are in everything and on everything. Plants, soil, water, animals, soap, keyboards.....the most sterile NASA "contaminant free" zones.. You name it.
There is no escape! and no end. You are more microbe than you are "human".....
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"Lyme","CFS", Meningitis
Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007
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Rico
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Wed May 31st, 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 16:53 |
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So what does that signify, then? That we're going to eventually have to keep returning to the MP on a perpetual basis, even after our illness appears defeated after 3-5 years?
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No diagnosis/some symptoms; wife with Sarc on MP; Olm 40mg q6h| avoid D| 1,25D=63 25D=32 (May 2006) 1,25D=44; 25D=10(Dec 2006)PhaseI(May06) PhaseII(Aug06) PhaseIII(Aug07)
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tickbite
Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 16:59 |
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| you're going to have to die at some point! I mean, yeah i suppose somewhat theoretically you could live forever on the MP......but do you really want to live forever? haha. Death is inevitable and healthy......sounds strange hugh?
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"Lyme","CFS", Meningitis
Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 17:11 |
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Greg says:
you're going to have to die at some point
Yes, I agree. The question is will you be dying at age 20,40,60,80,100,120? And why will death become inevitable?
The fascinating thing about the MP is that our data shows we are solving the diseases of aging, one by one. Since the Microbiota which causes chronic disease is apparently the same one causing the diseases of the aging, what processes will lead to the imminent inevitability of death?
Stem cells? Well, Emil Wirostko found the L-form Microbiota in stem cells, and it looks as though the reason the body loses its ability to heal (as it ages) is that its stem cells grow weak. But they also grow weak in disease. Perhaps the mechanism in both cases is Th1 in origin?
Lots of questions occupying my mind right now. Indeed, there is a whole medical journal dedicated to Inflammation and its importance in Aging - here is a letter to the editor I wrote them, some time ago...
http://www.immunityageing.com/content/3/1/12/comments
As Greg says, Death can be 'healthy'. But it more commonly is not so. I have at least the next 20 years until the rest of humanity catches up with our Th1 pathogenesis, and I suspect I will occupy at least some of them more fully elucidating answers for these questions...
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Rico
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 18:31 |
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Trevor, do you still foresee that patients, once recovered, should probably continue to do a regular dose of antibiotics for a few weeks every year? I remember this being said before.
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No diagnosis/some symptoms; wife with Sarc on MP; Olm 40mg q6h| avoid D| 1,25D=63 25D=32 (May 2006) 1,25D=44; 25D=10(Dec 2006)PhaseI(May06) PhaseII(Aug06) PhaseIII(Aug07)
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 18:44 |
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Rico,
The immune system seems to be able to do the cleanup job on its own, once folk have fully recovered. IMO There is no harm in doing an annual cleanup though - but it no longer seems that it will be necessary to maintain good health.
There is a new document coming out soon explaining the path beyond Phase 2/3, and what happens once the immune system gets back to full functionality 
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tickbite
Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 19:58 |
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I would have thought the complete opposite. No abx, instead benicar top offs each year. It's no good just stopping the bugs from maneuvering, you have to oxide them with the IM to finish them off.
who knows.
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"Lyme","CFS", Meningitis
Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 20:08 |
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Greg,
Benicar becomes purely palliative once the immune system is working properly again. The VDR can activate itself in the normal way, it doesn't need the agonism of Benicar.
Luckily, Benicar can still be used to deal with surges in IP when the immune system finds patches of bugs which have escaped the earlier antibiotics (eg in fibrotic tissue). For those of us that were really ill to start with, there appear to be far too many of those "patches" of bugs popping up for the immune system to go after 
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tickbite
Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 20:12 |
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If a sufficiently working IM can rid itself of CWD to begin with, why are people diseased in the first place?
Perhaps the benicar is the 'leg-up' in the continuing evolution of man vs. microbe.
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"Lyme","CFS", Meningitis
Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007
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scooker48
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 21:52 |
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Greg,
Possibly because of the industrialization of food, with the associated supplementation with "Vitamin D"? It's suppressed our immune systems.
Sherry
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Necrotizing granulomas biopsy 10/88; Dx 12/04 Sarcoid liver spleen. 2/2/05: VitD 25/VitD125 62. 04/07/08 D25 <7.0 L, Liver function normal 3/07; Wear NoIRs outside & for computer screen time. No K creme used.
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Reenie
inactive member
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 22:31 |
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Yes, I agree. The question is will you be dying at age 20,40,60,80,100,120? And why will death become inevitable?
I was just reminded yesterday that folks living thousands of years ago, not sure exactly how far back, lived to be 900 or so as recorded in ancient history.
Now, wouldn't that be something, if the MP could help us live longer and healthier, as long as we don't get hit by a bus of course.
Last edited on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 22:58 by Reenie
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carol
Advocate
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 22:53 |
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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: Luckily, Benicar can still be used to deal with surges in IP when the immune system finds patches of bugs which have escaped the earlier antibiotics (eg in fibrotic tissue). For those of us that were really ill to start with, there appear to be far too many of those "patches" of bugs popping up for the immune system to go after
This worries me. Do you think it is directly related to the amount of fibrotic tissue? I have lots of badly damaged joints which must be loaded with well-protected CWD bacteria. Will I ever be able to get them all????
Carol
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rheumatoid arthritis dx '96...started MP 8/11/04...initial D tests (7/11/04): 25-D=32; 1,25-D=65...phase 2 started 12/6/04...phase 3 started 2/26/06...vicodin & valium as needed for pain...last 25-D=9 (5/08)
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tickbite
Member
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 23:05 |
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Sherry,
Yes, that's a good answer. Penicillins, pesticides, etc. However, what about the frozen 10,000 (or whatever) year old ice man who supposedly had athritis, etc. I know he wasn't supplementing D or getting much sun, etc. What's up with that?
Reenie,
I have read of ancient yogi maharajis who live for quite some time, but they don't really identify with this world. So our rules don't apply to them.
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"Lyme","CFS", Meningitis
Phase3 8-2-07, MP on hold 11/2007
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Reenie
inactive member
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Posted: Mon Dec 17th, 2007 23:18 |
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Greg,
I'm not talking about yogis. I'm talking about folks that populated the earth in the early biblical times. These were typical people and for some reason lived alot longer than modern day man.
Carol,
I'm having some IPR now in areas that are fibrotic (scarring) on my body as well and am curious too now about if/when the increase in IPR will dissolve away my scar tissue (visible on the outside) and my "calcified granuloma" in my lung from what appears to date back to an episode I had with Valley Fever .
Mayo Clinic - Valley Fever
I suppose only time will tell and also maybe a chest x-ray in the future. Last edited on Mon Dec 17th, 2007 23:20 by Reenie
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 00:55 |
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Carol,
Deposition of collagen to encase pathogens which have escaped the immune system is one of the last lines of defense of the body. Medicine will tell you that fibrotic tissue does not remodel, but that is not what we are seeing.
At the moment it is the sarcies who seem most at risk, with lots of lung fibrosis. But it could also affect the RA patients too, we don't have any experience with that yet. In any case, Benicar is turning out to be provide good suppression of the immune system, and controls it adequately in all but the most seriously ill. You might have to increase your dosing frequency, but I doubt you will need anything more than that.
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Aunt Diana
Advocate
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Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 01:31 |
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Reenie,
One of those people was Methusalah (sp?) supposedy lived 900 years. Who knows? Could be so. The Bible has a way of surprising us with its factual history.
Greg,
I don't know if this fits into this discussion but, ever since I have contracted Lyme Disease, I have been fascinated that this bug bite gave me arthritis, and have wondered for a long time if other types of arthritis are vector borne. The Vitamin D "thing" seems applicable only to those who are diseased, if I understand it correctly.
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Lyme 1987, neuro cardio fatigue achiness brain fog depression, anxiety. Pacemaker, D.1,25 32; D <5; 12/07 <6, Oxycodone, lorazapam, benedryl, zantac, colase, Noirs, cover-up or avoid sun, house <30lux. Feb 08 Phase 3. 6/08 D <4, D1,25 21
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GeorgeinRollaMO
Advocate
| Joined: | Tue Aug 10th, 2004 |
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Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 03:44 |
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What IF "original sin" is being infected with CWD at or close to conception?
Then, comes our "modern" society with all of its D and other contaminants.
Maybe, our poor immune systems never get the chance to really recover, and only do a halfway job or less, until now?
Wishing all wellness!!!
Dark Vader..aka, George
Last edited on Tue Dec 18th, 2007 03:44 by GeorgeinRollaMO
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Borreliosis:7/14/04--125D=57,25D=61. Ben 9/1/04. Mino 10/5/04. 4/13/05--125D=58,25D=43. 8/17/05--125D=52,25D=36. April 06=125D=38,25D=29. 8/29/06--125D=37,25D=29. June 07 25D=23. Oct31'07,25D=19.
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John McDonald
Advocate
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Posted: Tue Dec 18th, 2007 05:24 |
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| Valley fever; I haven't thought about that for a long time but I was born in the namesake Valley and I had a sickly infancy. I'm sure that I have had a compromised immune system for a very long time.
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RA 125D38, MP 9/05 Ph2 12/05 Ph3 09/06, Oct07 2510, NoIRs lite exp r/t work covered up
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