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Desert Marie
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Mon Jun 6th, 2005 |
| Location: | Nevada USA |
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 16:44 |
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Peaceful Valley Farm Supply, Grass Valley, CA offers an interesting rodent control product, Quintox, which their catalogue describes as:
"Mouse & Rat Bait Active ingredient in Quintox is cholecalciferol or vitamin D3. When ingested, it mobilizes calcium from the rodent's bones into its bloodstream, producing hypercalcemia and heart failure. Quintox acts faster than anticoagulants, causing death in 2 to 4 days, with feeding stopping immediately once the rodent eats a lethal dose. Testing has shown this bait to be highly effective, even against anticoagulant resistant rodent populations. Very little risk of secondary poisoning (e.g., if your cat or dog catches a poisoned mouse). However, pets and children should be kept from being able to access and/or consume the bait (please note that rodents may move the bait around, so exercise vigilance and caution if pets and/or children are a factor)."
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Lyme Dx 4/04 (1998?)[6/05: 1,25D=66, 25D=30] [2/06:1,25D=35, 25D=12] avoiding D, NoIRs/ cal-mag-zinc / Benicar:10-10-05 40mg Q6-8H / ModPh2:1/06 Ph2:8/06 Ph3:11/06
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Tue Mar 4th, 2008 17:16 |
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Vitamin D has been used in Europe and Australia as rat-killer for decades
http://www.nearlydrferox.blogging4life.com/?p=143
My pet rats have a Vitamin-D-free diet of healthy cereals and fresh vegetables
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wrotek
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Fri Dec 31st, 2004 |
| Location: | Wroclaw, Poland |
| Posts: | 1175 |
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 01:58 |
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So, the knowledge that vitamin D actually dissolves bones into the blood stream is used practically ? 
Last edited on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 02:00 by wrotek
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Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 homebound in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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madwolf
Health Professional
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Posted: Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 17:01 |
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I just stumbled across this today in a catelog put out by an agriculture company. This deserves bumping up.
My doc keeps wanting me to take "D" to protect my bones. I think I will show her this.  
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Dx: Psoriatic Arthritis, FMS/CFIDS, Raynaud's Restarted Phase 1 in Noremember 2007 Current 25-D is 35, Non-MP meds: Armour thyroid, 60mg qd. Cymbalta, 60mg qd. CoReg CR 40mg hs. (BP still stable) Januvia 100mg qd, Byetta 10 mcg sub-q bid.
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Teresa Green
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 18th, 2008 |
| Location: | Geelong, Australia |
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 04:21 |
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This research report assesses the efficiency of QUINTOX as a pest control:
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1014&context=vpcthirteen
One of the Authors of the paper just happens to be an "E. F. Marshall". Is their any relation? or simply the surname Marshall is synonomous with controversy.
Regards
Teresa
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 04:24 |
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No relation... just an unfortunate name to have
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Teresa Green
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| Location: | Geelong, Australia |
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 04:41 |
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Trevor,
On a more serious note. Are their any parallels that can be drawn from the action of QUINTOX on rats? If so, do they apply to Homo Sapiens? If not is that because of the difference in the Vitamin D metabolic pathways in rats?
Regards
Teresa
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Joyful
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Jun 25th, 2009 22:43 |
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From the study above...
LITERATURE CITED: MARSHALL, E.F. 1982. Cholecalciferol, a promising new rodenticide. Proc. 10th Vert. Pest Conf. University of California, Davis.
The other question is, if they are finding that with these rodents 2-14 grams of 0.075% cholecalciferol for around two weeks was effective as a toxicant, do we know how to translate that to megadoses in D3 supplementation to people?
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LeAnne
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 09:29 |
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| How does the FDA get around this?
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Neuro-Sarcoidosis/lungs, spleen, nervous system, skin lesions, 125D66, MP 8/05, Ph1 3/06, Ph3 7/06, NoIRs, low lux home, cover up, 25D9 Sep07
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GeorgeinRollaMO
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Tue Aug 10th, 2004 |
| Location: | Rolla, Missouri USA |
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 20:21 |
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Please see my post of 6-26-09 about Quintox on the "MP in the news -- Vitamin D debate continues" thread of Prof. Marshall's Perpective.
Dark Vader (George)
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Borreliosis:7/14/04--125D=57,25D=61. Ben 9/1/04. Mino 10/5/04. 4/13/05--125D=58,25D=43. 8/17/05--125D=52,25D=36. April 06=125D=38,25D=29. 8/29/06--125D=37,25D=29. June 07 25D=23. Oct31'07,25D=19.
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Ron
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 20:28 |
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Joyful wrote: The other question is, if they are finding that with these rodents 2-14 grams of 0.075% cholecalciferol for around two weeks was effective as a toxicant, do we know how to translate that to megadoses in D3 supplementation to people?
From a Dutch manufacturer:
"Cholecalciferol is classified as a very toxic substance (category T+)."
http://www.dishman-netherlands.com/mme/upload/teksten_09-04-08_13-23-22.pdf
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Dad with RA, MP 01/08| 25D-16.8| Apr08 7.1 Sep08 11.6 Mar09 7.6 Jul09 17 Dec09 10.4| oxycodon, NoIRs, limited outings covered up
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scooker48
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 20:45 |
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I just called Peaceful Valley Garden Supply, and they still sell the Quintox but not in the small size.
It can still be purchased in the 5.5 lb size; so it is still on the market.
Sherry
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Necrotizing granulomas biopsy 10/88; Dx 12/04 Sarcoid liver spleen. 2/2/05: VitD 25/VitD125 62. 11/7/09 D25 at 6, Liver function normal 4/08; Wear NoIRs outside. No K creme used. 5/09 Liver and kidneys normal. ACE still high at 113 on 11/7/09.
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Joyful
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Posted: Fri Jun 26th, 2009 20:46 |
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Ok from the data sheet from Ron (thank you):
1 gram of Cholecalciferol equals 40,000,000 IU of vitamin D3
Even the doctors giving megadoses are not anywhere near 40 million IU.
To kill a mouse, they use 2-3 grams of 0.075% cholecalciferol.
(Somebody do the math please!)
They are killing rats in 2 weeks.
Humans take a little longer.
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Joyful
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:49 |
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Somebody check my math...
40,000,000 IU / gram* 0.075% = 30,000 IU / gram of rodent killer
2-3 grams is sufficient to kill a mouse.
That is 75,000 IU is sufficient to kill a mouse.
Humans and mice are not the same, but for comparison,
a mouse is said to weigh about 25 grams
and a person might weigh around 70 kilograms.
If the dosage by weight is an appropriate measure for toxicity...
an equivalent amount for a human would be 2,100,000,000 IU.
Of course, I'm sure a quick internet search would have been easier than all this math!
The take away may be to note how many IU are in a gram of the pure form. This may explain why babies were getting sick from milk that had unregulated levels of D3 added to them. With their low body weight and the small amounts (by weight) needed to reach toxic levels it is no wonder the FDA had to step in and limit the amount of D3 that could be added safely via regulation.
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Joyful
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 07:58 |
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Remember that D3 is fat soluble and can build up over time.
In the case of the mice, they didn't take a killing dose all at once, they ate it over the course of 2 weeks. In the same way, we can build up the levels until they become directly toxic (vs. just lowering immunity so something else can kill us).
But I'm probably talking out of turn because this is not something I have studied recently and my memory isn't serving me very well these days.
Last edited on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 13:30 by Joyful
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Joyful
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Posted: Sat Jun 27th, 2009 09:14 |
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Ok, I did a search and found this:
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Animal data indicates signs of toxicity can occur with ingestion of 0.5 mg/kg (20,000 IU/kg ), while the oral LD50 (the dose it takes to kill half the animals) for cholecalciferol in dogs is about 88 mg/kg, or 3,520,000 IU/kg.
This would be equivalent to a 110-pound adult taking 176,000,000 IU or 440,000 of the 400 unit cholecalciferol capsules. Vieth reports human toxicity probably begins to occur after chronic daily consumption of approximately 40,000 IU/day (100 of the 400 IU capsules). ___
I think it is significant that signs of toxicity occur with .5 mg/kg and is fatal in half the animals at 88 mg/kg. Toxicity is already at work long before they gave a dose that killed the animal.
Putting ti another way, it appears that a single dose equivalent to 20,000 IU/kg is enough to cause signs of toxicity evident to the researchers.
Last edited on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 13:38 by Joyful
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Diesel
Guests visiting Phase 1/2/3
| Joined: | Sat Dec 19th, 2009 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 16th, 2010 20:52 |
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Hi all,
Cholecalciferol Poisoning
by Carla Morrow, DVM
http://www2.aspca.org/site/DocServer/toxbrief_1201.pdf?docID=127
Diesel
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Vit.B12 Hydroxo-cobalamin injection dependant 1995 Sublingual Methyl-cobalamin and Adenosyl-cobalamin tabl. 2008
Osteoporosis 2007 True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing
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Cynthia Schnitz
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sun Jan 17th, 2010 01:39 |
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"Calcitriol is the most metabolically active and binds to the vitamin D receptors 500 times greater than calcifediol does and 1,000 times greater than cholecalciferol does."
I'm assuming they are using blood level concentrations for this "1000 times" statement, and not cell level concentrations. ( Calcitriol = 1,25D and Cholecalciferol = 25D ?? )
Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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