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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 08:59 |
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In the past, members on the Marshall Protocol have eaten yogurt for various reasons including wanting to get enough calcium or finding it helped keep the gut issues on an even keel.
But now with the push for increasing D supplementation and the concerns brought up by recent research, should we revisit the 'benefits' of eating yogurt?
Do we need to read the labels and sort out clues that it may contain hidden D? Or even more daunting, do we need to be cautious about the strains of bacteria added as the 'culture' in that harmless looking goo?
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 09:00 |
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cwylie1 wrote (moved from another thread): Hello all,
Just a quick note of information. Stonyfield Farm organic yogurt now has added Vit D3 listed with it's otherwise organic and good ingredients. I had noticed the full fatted yogurt had the D added earlier this year and now have just realized the low fat version does also.
I say this now as I just noted someone earlier up the thread listing all the things she eats, and Stonyfield Farm organic yogurt was listed there so wanted to alert everyone that "organic" in this case doesn't mean w/o supplementation. I shot off an email to them asking why they would adulterate their otherwise wonderful yogurt with a steroid!!! I received an autoresponse thank you but haven't heard back on the issue. I included two MP links on Vit D for their perusal. Hope it helps.
Carol 
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 09:01 |
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Hi Carol,
That's interesting, the Stoneyfield Farm organic whole milk (plain) container in my fridge doesn't list any vitamin D. I tried looking it up on their site and the label matches the one I have here.
OUR FAMILY RECIPE: CULTURED PASTEURIZED ORGANIC WHOLE MILK, INULIN, PECTIN. CONTAINS: SIX LIVE ACTIVE CULTURES INCLUDING: L. ACIDOPHILUS, BIFIDUS, L. CASEI, AND L. REUTERI.
One cup serving: Vitamin A 8%, Vitamin C 0%, Calcium 45%, Iron 0%, Thiamin 8%, Riboflavin 25%, Vitamin B6%, Vitamin B12 15%, Pantothenic Acid 8%, Phosphorus 25%, Magnesium 6%.
http://www.stonyfield.com/OurProducts/WholeMilkYogurt.cfm
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 09:02 |
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ShrnHml wrote (moved from another thread): The regulations of each state on adding Vit D are different. That means that I could get D-less Stoneyfield Farm organic whole milk here in Missouri, while a neighboring state may have to add D. Or vice versa.
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 09:03 |
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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote (moved from another thread): Sharon,
Do you have a link to a State regulation requiring that Vitamin D be added? As far as I have been able to tell, the addition is purely voluntary, a marketing decision.
However, if Vit D is added then the FDA regulates how that is done so as to minimize the likelihood of poisonings 
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 09:04 |
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Markt9452 wrote (moved from another thread): 
Our Yobaby yogurts are certified organic and are specially formulated to meet the growing needs of little yogurt-eaters from the age of 9 months.
Stonyfield Farm Yobaby...- Contains organic whole milk 3.25% M.F., enriched with vitamin D
Whole milk is especially good for infants because its higher fat content helps: - Aid in the absorption of fat-soluble vitamins
Those Stonyfield Farm guys are all about the vitamin D.
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 09:05 |
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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote (moved from another thread): Also, my third slide for China notes that Lactobacillus and Bifidobacteria produce petides which act directly on human Angiotensin Converting Enzyme (ACE).
So those "friendly" little fellas which Stonyfield put into their 'organic' milk are nowhere near as harmless as they would have us believe...
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 09:13 |
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Looking more closely at the probiotic issue I read from here, this:
The exclusive blend of natural probiotic cultures in our yogurt includes the premium probiotic Lactobacillus Rhamnosus. By definition, yogurt must include the starter cultures Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus. Other major-brand yogurts include one or two additional cultures. But we add four more probiotic cultures to all our yogurts: L. acidophilus, Bifidus, L. casei, and L. rhamnosus.
So, how much of that is 'live' when we eat the yogurt?
I don't know.
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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Dr Trevor Marshall
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 14:50 |
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There is an definitive paper (from FDA authors) describing fortification in the US and Canada at URL:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/80/6/1710S.pdf
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 15:20 |
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Wow. It is so sad how much effort the authors of this study put into determining how much supplemental Vitamin D the average person is getting from their food.
If only they could understand the relationship between chronic disease and low serum levels of 25-D is the opposite of what they have been lead to believe.
Then they could write papers about how to normalize serum levels of 25-D by treating the chronic diseases causing them!
... oh yeah right, that's what you are doing ...
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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Markt9452
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 19:36 |
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We could verify from the manufacturer, in writing, that a product is D free and have it certified, so to speak, by the ARF as "No D added".
There could be a list of certified safe products on the website and once this no D added thing takes off it might even generate some revenues.
  -D
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Th1 Lyme Symptoms 125D20 D2510 Ph1Feb08 Ph2Apr08 Ph3Oct08 daily med.exp covered up NoIRs| MyStory|
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Joyful
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Posted: Tue Nov 25th, 2008 14:46 |
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Mark, that would be wonderful.
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Afternoon Tea
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Posted: Wed Nov 26th, 2008 17:44 |
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Joyful wrote: Looking more closely at the probiotic issue I read from here, this:
The exclusive blend of natural probiotic cultures in our yogurt includes the premium probiotic Lactobacillus Rhamnosus. By definition, yogurt must include the starter cultures Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus. Other major-brand yogurts include one or two additional cultures. But we add four more probiotic cultures to all our yogurts: L. acidophilus, Bifidus, L. casei, and L. rhamnosus.
So, how much of that is 'live' when we eat the yogurt?
I don't know.
It is very alive! We use whey from yogurt (that is the liquid part of the yogurt that drains when the yogurt is suspended in cheese cloth - the remaining curds are the cream cheese) to add to cabbage to make homemade sauerkraut. It is not necessary to add because if you use enough salt the sauerkraut will still ferment, but adding the whey makes for a less salty and more consistent product.
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Toni D
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Posted: Wed Nov 26th, 2008 20:05 |
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I do not know if this bit of information from "Foods to Avoid" would be helpful, but I used it as a guideline when I first started the MP in making adjustments to my diet.
"Dairy products should be free of added Vitamin D, and contain no more than 6% of Vitamin A.
: 6% of Vitamin A restriction is only used as a guideline to suggest that a product might also be fortified with Vitamin D and not labeled as such. eg. not referring to carrots."
For me, if a dairy product has more than 6% Vitamin A, I just assume it contains Vitamin D and refuse to purchase it. Either I find something within the guidelines or do without. Simple. It's better to be safe than sorry.
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DX sarcoid-1970 glaucoma high BP asthma allergies| Meds-Lasix Xopenex Nevanac Cardizem Nizoral Cream| NoIRs No D/sun | 08/05 25D=26, 1,25D=38| 07/07 25D=<4| BeniQ6H 09/27/05| ModPh2 07/06; Ph2 09/07|Ph3 04/08| 12/08 25D=<4| 05/09 25D=<4, 1,25D=27
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Joyful
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Posted: Wed Nov 26th, 2008 20:13 |
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Afternoon Tea,
Wow. You can make sauerkraut?
That is one trick I haven't quite figured out just yet.
Toni,
Yes, I remember that guideline too.
6% is a normal amount of A for dairy I guess.
So, what about this concept that Dr. Marshall has brought up?
Can we know exactly what a normal, healthy human gut really is like?
Is zero bacteria the proper goal?
Or what?
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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Markt9452
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Wed Nov 26th, 2008 20:44 |
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Also, my third slide for China notes that Lactobacillus and Bifidobacteria produce petides which act directly on human Angiotensin Converting Enzyme (ACE).
I think I could use some more info about this...
What about the cheese? It has bacteria too.
Any volunteers for a bacteria free diet?
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jlunn247
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Posted: Thu Nov 27th, 2008 14:35 |
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It seems like the American mind is lacking a dose of common sense.
When did this lack of digestive enzymes start to occur?
Was it before Jamie Curtis started to promote activia?
Or was it before starting to eat an average of 120 lbs of mozzarella cheese a year?
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eClaire
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Posted: Sat Nov 29th, 2008 01:30 |
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This always happens to me...someone else is eating my cheese! (And my fast food, drinking my beer, etc. How do people consume these products!)
Come on guys. The yogurt gives me a change up in my morning diet ... I don't eat it every day and when I do, a couple of table spoons on granola (no bad stuff added).
But if Dr. Marshall says yogurt ought to be booted out of my diet, THEN, I will boot it. In the meantime, I cannot afford to obsess. (Not saying anyone else is obsessing. Obviously, we have different levels of energy here on the MP and some have more time than others to investigate and make their diets better. Right now, for me, I'm trying to just get the energy and appetite to put food in my mouth.)
I'll be interested to see where this thread leads, as I too wonder about "the yogurt thing" (meaning the sense of putting it in my body).
Claire
Claire
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34mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sat Nov 29th, 2008 01:52 |
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I eat cheese by the boatload. Imported Canadian, Australian or Danish.
Blue (Rosenburg, King Island), sharp cheddar and Havarti. I never really liked yogurt, so I have no experience with that.
In general, I would be more concerned about Vit D creeping into yogurt than I would be about the bacteria in it. In any case, it is reasonable to expect that the GI tract of anybody on the MP should be cleaned out of persistent bacteria. Does a load of probiotics in the Yogurt overload the immune system? Heck, I don't know...
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eClaire
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Posted: Sat Nov 29th, 2008 03:30 |
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Good. I'm glad you don't know Dr. Marshall and so I shall continue to consume my yogurt in moderation, which is less often than I consume cheese, which I consume once or twice a day. I'm glad to hear you eat Blue and the folk who would warn me off of mold (supposed mol allergy) raise their eyes when I mention my purchasing some Danish or French blue cheese every now and again.
Claire
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34mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings & covered up; home w/o NoIRs
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009
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