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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2009 01:42 |
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During a discussion about how much we have learned about Vit D metabolite interpretation over the last year, JoshR suggested that we could automate the whole (new) process.
Less than two months later - here it is for you to play with, and to find any bugs, before we advertise it more widely in a day or three.
You can access the calculator on the new Knowledge Base at:
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:tests:vitdinterpretation
Thanks to Paul and Joyful for making it happen 
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Teresa Green
Member
| Joined: | Tue Mar 18th, 2008 |
| Location: | Geelong, Australia |
| Posts: | 15 |
| Status: |
Offline
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Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2009 05:16 |
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Trevor,
I tested it and found the following:
1.) That the original units selected in the entry screen reverted back from nmol/L to ng/ml and pmol/L to pg/ml respectively, following submission of the results.
2.) And the entries for question 1 and 2 also reverted back to the default settings following submission of the results.
Teresa
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Nasseroo
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Tue Mar 10th, 2009 23:21 |
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Trevor,
What a helpful development. I suggest two minor grammatical changes to the introductory paragraph:
1) change "microbiota accumulates" to "microbiota accumulate" since microbiota is plural
2) eliminate the comma and replace with a period at "medical diagnosis. The healthcare practitioner..." Use a period instead of a comma to avoid what English teachers call a run-on sentence.
Debbie Mostaghel, Nasseroo/Nassim's mother
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extreme photosensitivity; MP phase 1 on 11/18/07; phase 2 on 3/26/08; phase 3 9/8/08. Initial 1,25D at 44; 16 on 3/11/08; 8.5 on 7/1/08; 4.7 on 10/08/09; 4.4 in Feb/09. Wellbutrin, NoIRs, covered up, stay home low lux 24/7.
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 03:47 |
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Teresa,
I think the initialization issues are fixed. Sorry that the defaults are set up for those members living in the USA, it was a choice we had to make...
Debbie,
Hmm... 'microbiota' is plural, eh? Hmm.. I had better think about that... there is a lot of stuff I have written which will need to be revised... Maybe I had better start using Microbiome and Metabonome instead. Sigh...
You are correct about the comma, however that sentence was written for lawyers to read (it is a disclaimer) and we don't want to make it too hard for them to keep it all together in their minds
Thanks for your thoughts, though. Hmm... 'microbiota'... interesting...
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Julia
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 11:54 |
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Microbiota is surely a plural term used for a colony, just as 'gut flora' is. It is commonly used as a singular.
Debbie, I've changed the comma to a semi-colon for clarity
____________________
Sarc/uveitis/hypercalcaemia/ankle osteoarthritis/eczema. MP May04. 25D Apr09:5.6. Life is good! Julia's story
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 19:34 |
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I had an email which pointed out that we have forgotten to tell people with low 25-D levels that this is usually a sign of Th1 disease. Ooops... I will fix that ASAP...
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Deedee
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 21:17 |
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| Should there be something on there that makes it clear that you can start treatment before reaching therapeutic D levels?
____________________
Sarc in lymph nodes. D15. Modified Ph II; Mino/Clindy; Benicar 4X/day. Lipids high. 7/07 check-up: Normal PFTs/CXR improved; Quecentin/guaifensin if lymph nodes hurt. Began MP 8/08
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 22:30 |
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The text for levels below 20ng/ml has been altered to add:In countries where milk is supplemented with Vitamin D, it is unusual to see 25-D levels in this range unless Th1/Th17 inflammatory disease is present. Assessment of the degree of inflammation involves assessment of both sources of ingestion, and the measured 25-D level. If the individual has been carefully avoiding all exogenous sources of Vitamin D, this level might possibly be within normal limits, and a therapeutic probe is suggested to confirm the presence or absence of Th1/Th17 disease.
and below 14ng/ml to say:The primary mechanism depressing 25-D levels below 14ng/ml is Th1/Th17 inflammation. The 25-D metabolism will be driven to even lower values as the inflammation becomes more widespread. Conversely, the presence of ingested Vitamin D from milk, food, and supplements will counteract this trend. Assessment of the degree of inflammation involves assessment of both the sources of ingestion and the measured 25-D level.
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DeeDee,
Any 25-D values over 41 will trigger a message:The 25-D has built up to a level which is highly immunosuppressive. It will need to be weaned lower before test results can be meaningful, and before contemplating any therapy
I don't think we have any other messages relating to not starting therapy, do we?
I am mainly concerned to make sure we don't get any more patients with a 25-D of 50ng/ml being put into Phase 2. As their 25-D drops into the therapeutic region it is likely that their immunopathology would become unstable and even uncontrollable.
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Deedee
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 22:37 |
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One more question.....
When I started I had been supplementing and my D was 54. I believe I read that by taking the benicar, that would help reduce the D faster. Correct me if I am wrong. After 3 months I was down to D24. I starting having IP within the first week of Benicar (...now realizing many improvements, thank you.)
So is this saying no Benicar if the D is over 41?
____________________
Sarc in lymph nodes. D15. Modified Ph II; Mino/Clindy; Benicar 4X/day. Lipids high. 7/07 check-up: Normal PFTs/CXR improved; Quecentin/guaifensin if lymph nodes hurt. Began MP 8/08
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 22:53 |
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Yes, DeeDee, I don't want anybody to get into trouble by starting therapy with a 25-D which is too high. Arguably, levels between 30 and 40 are likely to be problematic, too, but also we have the problem that symptoms will get really bad as the D immunosuppression lifts. Benicar can help them wean through the 30-40 range...
As we understand more about the science underlying the therapy, we can start to put in safeguards to make sure that people don't get too many surprises. A month (or so) of waiting while the D drops to 40 is better (IMO) than risking the transition from extreme immunosuppression to immune activation in just a few days...
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Deedee
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Wed Mar 11th, 2009 22:54 |
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Thanks for that clarification.
Mostly, thank you and the team for providing hope and a path for restored health.
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Sarc in lymph nodes. D15. Modified Ph II; Mino/Clindy; Benicar 4X/day. Lipids high. 7/07 check-up: Normal PFTs/CXR improved; Quecentin/guaifensin if lymph nodes hurt. Began MP 8/08
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Mar 12th, 2009 00:30 |
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++++++++ IF NOBODY HAS ANY MORE ISSUES +++++++++
+++++++ WE CAN START LETTING THE NEWBIES +++++++
+++++++++ KNOW ABOUT THE CALCULATOR ++++++++++
http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:tests:vitdinterpretation
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expate
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Mar 12th, 2009 00:46 |
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Microbiota is a plural, not a collective noun. Commonly, people do say, "The data is convincing," but properly it should be "data are".
I expect this is analogous to that: you have a single datum that when grouped with others becomes data. I don't talk science, so I don't know - does anybody ever refer to a single microbiotum? Hmmmm, that sounds a little, uh funny as in, "Wow, you've lost weight. You sure do have a micro biotum." [heavy Southern accent needed for that one!]
 dette
____________________
Hypervitaminosis D 1,25-D 52 pg/ml, 25-D 38 (4/08), 25-D 34 (8/08), 25-D 29 (10/08), 25-D 14 (3/09), 25-D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09. Covered up, but no facemask any longer. NoIRs. Home low light.
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Mar 12th, 2009 01:07 |
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I knew Wikipedia wouldn't let us down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbiota
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Julia
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Mar 12th, 2009 01:31 |
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Good old Wikipedia! 
I think you might be right, Odette, but a quick google-hunt produces many scientific papers using the term as singular and many as plural. And Wiktionary actually gives the plural "microbiotas".
____________________
Sarc/uveitis/hypercalcaemia/ankle osteoarthritis/eczema. MP May04. 25D Apr09:5.6. Life is good! Julia's story
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Cold Feet
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Mar 12th, 2009 02:14 |
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I like the simplicity of this test – please keep it that way if you can. My test result shows “less than 7" for 25-D, so I chose “6.” Does this matter? What’s the cut-off?! Here’s my result cut & pasted:
Feedback on vitamin D results
25-D: 6 ng/ml
1,25-D: 25 pg/ml
Steroids/TNF drugs: No
Olmesartan: Yes
Interpretations of 1,25-D are not useful after therapy with olmesartan has commenced – or if corticosteroids, anti-fungals, or TNF-alpha drugs have recently been taken. Please post on the Physicians Forum on the study site.
The primary mechanism depressing 25-D levels below 14ng/ml is Th1/Th17 inflammation. The 25-D metabolism will be driven to even lower values as the inflammation becomes more widespread. Conversely, the presence of ingested Vitamin D from milk, food, and supplements will counteract this trend. Assessment of the degree of inflammation involves assessment of both the sources of ingestion and the measured 25-D level.
This level of 25-D is in the therapeutic range. This is a good place from which to initiate therapy concomitant with continued avoidance of ingested Vitamin D.
Last edited on Thu Mar 12th, 2009 02:16 by Cold Feet
____________________
Lyme & Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2004 -Age 44| 6 Wks Doxy & 25 mG Atenolol STOPPED| 1,25D–42 25D-37| Phase 1 Oct. 06| Avoiding all D & Sun | NOIRs Everywhere | March 2007: 1,25D–30 | 25D-11
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expate
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Mar 12th, 2009 02:57 |
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Well, is this what you meant about Wikipedia not letting us down? "Microbiota (as a plural noun) also refers to microflora and microfauna as a group; especially to the various bacteria that live in the gut of normal, healthy humans and other animals." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbiota_(disambiguation)] Or were you being sarcastic about the main definition being a genus of conifer in Siberia?
Anyhow, datum, bacterium, microbiotum (I can't type that without laughing  ) are singular and data, bacteria, and microbiota are plural. But, as I said, common usage pretty much allows a person to say, "The bacteria left from cutting raw chicken on a cutting board is dangerous and should be washed off before using the same board for cutting vegetables for raw comsumption." [I know, that sentence has a couple of other grammatical errors, but you get my point...]
And then there's genus/genera. Unfortunately, I did not study Latin, but I suspect that's the culprit here.
I honestly don't care one way or the other. There are times I feel people who say "data are" sound pretentious.
 dette
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Hypervitaminosis D 1,25-D 52 pg/ml, 25-D 38 (4/08), 25-D 34 (8/08), 25-D 29 (10/08), 25-D 14 (3/09), 25-D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09. Covered up, but no facemask any longer. NoIRs. Home low light.
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