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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Jul 9th, 2009 05:06 |
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When I used to have problems with minor rashes in sweaty areas of skin, the only creams I found to be effective were those based on Tolnaftate. Consequently I was particularly interested to come across the mode of action hypothesized in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolnaftate"Although the exact mechanism of action is not entirely known, it is believed to inhibit the squalene epoxidase,[1] an important enzyme in the biosynthetic pathway of ergosterol (a key component of the fungal membrane)"
Ergosterol, you will recall, is the precursor for Vitamin D2.
It's a small, small, world...
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Bobo
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Posted: Thu Jul 9th, 2009 05:34 |
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Hi dr Marshall!
I was wondering if sterols/sterolins in cooking oils and creams are the same as ergosterol, or if it can raise the 25D?
My sun cream says it has plant sterols, and lots of other oils from natural plants, such as soybean sterols etc....is there anything to worry about when it comes to that? I try to use natural organic creams, but dont know if the foreign plant oils may contain vit D? Does it matter when its put on the skin?
On my rice oil it says that is rich in plant sterolins, and I read somewhere that sterolins could help for inflammatory diseases. That must mean that it is contradicted with the MP?
Thanks!
____________________
hypothyroid, Epstein-barr, cytolomega, myalgia,ME,
ph1=31/01,1,25=34,25D=18,8(feb09)25D= 10,2 benicar q6hrs, ph2 28/03,ph3 28/06 digestive enzymes,HCl,
NOIRS, covered up, lightexp:less than 1hrs/week, low lux home,
fatigue, migrain, eyepain, muscle
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Joyful
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Posted: Thu Jul 9th, 2009 19:50 |
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"Although the exact mechanism of action is not entirely known, it is believed to inhibit the squalene epoxidase,[1] an important enzyme in the biosynthetic pathway of ergosterol (a key component of the fungal membrane)"
Trying to break this into 'bite size' pieces...
--- tolnaftate inhibits an enzyme (squalene epoxidase)
--- that enzyme is needed for production of ergosterol?
--- ergosterol is a key component of fungal membranes
and
--- ergosterol is also the precursor for Vitamin D2.
So do you think the tolnaftate helping your symptoms by reducing fungal growth, or by another action?
Thanks for helping the rest of us follow along in your journey of discovery. 
____________________
Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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jcwat101
Research Professional
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 03:54 |
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Bobo,
I don't think there is a problem with plant sterols as far as vitamin D content:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytosterol
As for what you put on your skin, I don't think it very likely that it is a significant problem. If you were to have problems progressing with the MP or lowering your vitamin D, you could perhaps switch, just in case. Or if you are concerned, you might change to see if it makes any difference.
Joyce Waterhouse
Last edited on Fri Jul 10th, 2009 03:54 by jcwat101
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20 yrs with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, food sensitivities; 1,25D/25D 8/04:64/11 http://SynergyHN.com
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Bobo
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Posted: Fri Jul 10th, 2009 04:55 |
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| Ok, thanks
____________________
hypothyroid, Epstein-barr, cytolomega, myalgia,ME,
ph1=31/01,1,25=34,25D=18,8(feb09)25D= 10,2 benicar q6hrs, ph2 28/03,ph3 28/06 digestive enzymes,HCl,
NOIRS, covered up, lightexp:less than 1hrs/week, low lux home,
fatigue, migrain, eyepain, muscle
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Chris
Moderator
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Posted: Sat Jul 11th, 2009 16:36 |
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Tolnaftate (via Tinactin) was one of the clues for me that my sarcoid & other troubles were at least partially caused by an infection.
I was having a lot of digestive troubles, especially with fatty foods, that would start with IBS and lead to fever episodes. Then, one day I got a foot fungus, so start with the tinactin. The stomach troubles subsided and a light went on. Then for a year or more, I'd spread the tinactin on my stomach. Not only did the gut troubles go away, but some skin troubles went with them. It didn't solve everything, but was a great relief.
One medical person I told the story to told me that it could not possibly go through the skin barrier, even though she worked for a company that makes nicotine patches.
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sarcoid diagnosed 1991, probably started 1983
D25/1,25: Mar04 17/80, Sep04 12/50, Nov04 8/23, Jan05 9/39 May05 6/27; in phase3; fevers, muscle pain, tinnitus, depression, mental-fog, IBS, carpal-tunnel, fatigue, osteopenia
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jlunn247
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 16:22 |
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We Sarcies should "huff" tinactin?
____________________
Sarc/lungs/joint pain TMJnerve pain 125D56 25D16 Ph1Mar07 ModPh2Jun07 Ph2Nov07 PHase3Feb08 albuterol
dark sunglasses hands & face exposed. Medium herx
mostly.june09
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eClaire
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 16:25 |
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Okay, now this begs the question: Is it possible that Toinaftate could be used in conjunction with the MP given that it inhibits ergosterol conversion, particularly for people who are having difficulty reducing their 25-D regardless of diet changes? I know what may be needed to know about Toinaftate (the total affect of Toinaftate on the system that might contraindicate its use) may not currently be known and so this question might not be able to be answered for now. However, from what has been said it sounds like Toinaftate may not modulate the immune system in a way that would be contraindicated.
Or am I missing something here?
Chris, what that medical professional had to say, given her involvement with nicotine patches, was hysterical.
Claire
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34mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings & covered up; home w/o NoIRs
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009
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jlunn247
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Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2009 23:37 |
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I also have some doubt about adding any thing that might help or hurt.
p.s. that trans dermal "Patch Adams" sounds as ignorant as i am.
____________________
Sarc/lungs/joint pain TMJnerve pain 125D56 25D16 Ph1Mar07 ModPh2Jun07 Ph2Nov07 PHase3Feb08 albuterol
dark sunglasses hands & face exposed. Medium herx
mostly.june09
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Chris
Moderator
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Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 17:40 |
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The medical person in question was intelligent & well educated. It just points out how hard it is to overcome entrenched training. Most folks tend to treat anything new (nicotine patches) as exceptions to the rule. They don't see them as breaking well-entrenched paradigms (the skin as a barrier). Just about every 'known fact' in medicine probably has some evidence that it isn't true. So, the medical profession has gotten good at sweeping such stuff off the table.
For our own sanity, we do have to draw lines around what we know well, and what we are willing to question. Medicine still has a lot to question, so to keep sane, I understand why they don't question the very basics: Koch's postulate, the skin as a barrier, etc. It's just that us sarcies/TH1 patients are at the sharp point of things, and we do need to question as the very basic things that most docs accept are deadly to us: sarcoid remission, predisone as a treatment, etc.
____________________
sarcoid diagnosed 1991, probably started 1983
D25/1,25: Mar04 17/80, Sep04 12/50, Nov04 8/23, Jan05 9/39 May05 6/27; in phase3; fevers, muscle pain, tinnitus, depression, mental-fog, IBS, carpal-tunnel, fatigue, osteopenia
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Cynthia Schnitz
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 20:15 |
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I have started using the term "Old Doctor's Tales".
Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D10 3/09,Estradiol .75mg, xMag+Ca, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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eClaire
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Posted: Mon Jul 13th, 2009 22:17 |
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| I'm sorry Cynthia, but I just have to say, "That's BRILLIANT!" Brilliantly funny! Claire Last edited on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 22:17 by eClaire
____________________
34mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings & covered up; home w/o NoIRs
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009
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kenc
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Tue Jul 14th, 2009 22:35 |
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The medical person in question was intelligent & well educated. It just points out how hard it is to overcome entrenched training.
Chris,
A clinical study was undertaken in 2006 to test immune response (neutrophil recruitment and cytokine production after acute trauma, interleukin 8 secretion by cultured monocyte-derived macrophages after exposure to inflammatory mediators, and local inflammatory and vascular changes in response to subcutaneous injection of heat-killed Escherichia coli) of patients with Crohn's disease. The patients were found to have a weaker immune response than controls. This flies in the face of the assumption in gastroenterology that Crohn's disease patients have overactive immune systems. It also suggests Crohn's disease is not just confined to the gut. I gave a copy of this study to a gastroenterologist in training. She was extremely eager to read it. Her mentor, a practising gastroenterologist, has shown no interest in the paper yet.
As you know a whole industry has been built around the application of immunosuppressive drugs to Crohn's and other patients with chronic conditions. To suggest that this is all a mistake would be akin to suggesting alchemy as a viable method for turning iron into gold. Think of what a mind-bender this must be for a physician who has spend years prescribing immunosuppressive drugs or a research scientist who has spent decades doing the research for the development of immunosuppressive drugs.
I am amazed how this assumption of overactivity has developed and taken root. I suspect the lack of evidence of pathogens motivated early researchers to adopt this assumption. Then the Nobel prize winning development of synthetic cortisone in the early 50s began this huge industry of immunosuppression.
Since 1984, I've been reading about the research funded by the Crohn's and Colitis Foundations of America and Canada. It's only been during the last five years or so that there has been a serious interest in looking for possible pathogens. Until recently this research was considered to be fringe science at best. Certainly no drug company would fund this kind of research. So charitable organizations have reluctantly filled the gap.
Ken
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Crohn's Disease 1984, 24May05 1,25D=33 25D=8.4, 6Sep05 1,25D=29 25D=12, 11Jun07 25D=<10.4 1,25D=10, 15Sep07 1,25D=14.2 25D=16, 12Jul05 Phase1 + pred, 12Jul06 Phase2 + pred/dexa, 14Aug07 Phase2, prednisone, dexamethasone, testosterone, aspirin, levothyr
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