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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 18:59 |
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The Foundation has now put Lida Mattman's second-to-last presentation on YouTube. This was filmed at our 2005 Chicago conference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WozrCFW0mRM
Lida is no longer with us, but her wonderful work will live on, through her papers, videos like this, and the people whose lives she touched (like mine).
BE WARNED -- Some of Lida's slides are very graphic. Please watch it with a friend, in case you faint...
..Trevor..
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Phillyguy
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Posted: Tue Nov 17th, 2009 19:41 |
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I attempted to start a thread with this paper but was unsuccessful. In that this paper relates to imaging bacteria, I thought it made some sense to post here. Many people, myself included, are visual learners. The paper is recent (9/09) and includes some really excellent imaging which illistrates the magnitude of bacterial parasatemia that can occur in host cells.
The paper discusses borrellia infection of the tick midgut and includes some fantastic imaging which shows blebs and aggregates (clustering). Dr. Marshall, please take a close look at figure 3 (link below). Are the hundreds of intracellular blebs analagous to L-forms?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/39401/figure/3
The photo shows hundreds of these blebs within the epithelial cells! It really drives home the point that Dr. Marshall makes about the level of parasitemia that occurs in vivo. The photos even show the conversion of spirochetes into blebs. I'm not even sure that conversion is the correct word since it appears more like de novo synthesis of the blebs. The paper refers to it as shedding.
Also, please take a look at images E&F. Would this "clustering" referred to as "networks" be analgous to biofilms?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/39401/figure/4
The paper also goes on to dispel the myth that non-motile spirochetes are not metabolically active, etc.
Full paper:
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/39401?key=HnLk45JRxih3aqbS4YCQ
Last edited on Tue Nov 17th, 2009 19:48 by Phillyguy
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Nov 17th, 2009 20:19 |
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Firstly, these photos are of distribution within a gut. The scale is much, much larger than the size of L-forms that would parasitize a cell within tissue.
Second, Borrelia spirochetes do not persist in human tissue or blood. They may exist in the gut, we have no data on that. But the human immune system kills the spirochetal form very well, even until the host gets very, very sick. Spirochetes have only been found in dead human (autopsy) tissue, and in stale blood. And of course they can be cultured in a petrie dish.
Third, unless you are PCR positive for Borrelia, you cannot assume that it forms part of your microbiota. Even then, it is most unlikely you are carrying DNA for all of the 17-21 plasmids which form part of the Borrelia genome.
As Amy's talk in Beijing explains, antibodies are notoriously polyspecific, meaning they react with many different things. The antibodies used by labs to detect Borrelia are no better than any other antibodies - they cannot be trusted. That's why you need to have specific "PCR positivity." Borrelia is a pathogen which the immune system clears fairly well. It may precipitate an immune failure, but the organism itself is rarely found in the chronic phase.
Note this passage from the paper: "Our results imply that the intercellular junctions and basement membrane form a series of anatomical barriers that Borrelia must cross in order to gain access to the hemocoel" It is saying that existence in the gut is quite separate from existence in the blood and body tissue.
They did note apparent phagocytosis of blebs, which would allow an intra-cellular infective mode to develop.
All that being said, there is evidence that a small amount of Helicobacter DNA does circulate in human blood, and I suspect a little Borrelia DNA evades the immune system too. But that doesn't mean that Borrelia alone is causing the persistent disease called Chronic Lyme. It most definitely is not.
I hope that helps 
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Phillyguy
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Posted: Tue Nov 17th, 2009 21:32 |
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It does help, thank you.
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marysue
Moderator
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Posted: Tue Nov 17th, 2009 23:16 |
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Thanks Trevor,
I almost can't count the number of times I've read posts where people make a direct connection between "infection with Borrelia" and Chronic Lyme. So, your explanation is very helpful.
I realize that you are describing only the actions of Borrelia here, but is this also typical of other types of bacteria--that we carry the bacterial DNA around and that is what alters/affects our health rather than the bacteria itself infecting cells and transcribing genes?
Marysue
"learning a lot...but probably have just enough knowledge to hang myself if I try to explain it to anyone else."  Last edited on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 19:03 by marysue
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Tue Nov 17th, 2009 23:38 |
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Marysue,
We carry around bacterial, viral, phage, and fungal DNA. The manner in which this metagenomic DNA manages to persist as an intra-phagocytic community determines the disease symptoms we will accumulate as we age.
The bacterial species collect in symbiosis, progressively disabling our immune systems (so as to ensure the microbiota's survival) and affecting the way our cells work.
Amy has just written a book chapter which explains this in exquisite detail and hopefully it will be online in a few months. Meanwhile, the AutoimmunityReviews paper is worth a careful read:
http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/preprints/AR-Proal-Metagenome.pdf
..Trevor..
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marysue
Moderator
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Posted: Wed Nov 18th, 2009 06:25 |
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Thanks Trevor, that helps too!
A couple of weeks ago, I printed 4 of the 6 "key papers" to add to my learning/research file and covered them all in yellow highlighter and margin notes. I just went to Amy's paper from your link above and reread it. I think more of it is sinking in....now that my brain is functioning better.
Watching Lida's presentation helped me discover a real problem with my learning process. There are still way too many basic cellular biology terms that just don't register in my brain.  Oops! So, I've been writing them all down and creating a glossary of terms and definitions. The glossary on the MPKB are mostly terms that I am familiar with--it's really just the biology terms that are hanging me up. You wonderful researchers use such basic terms like cytoplasm, intra-phagocytic, parasatemia, macrophage....and every time my brain crosses one of them it just fills in the word with "blah, blah, something biological...look it up on wikipedia." 
So, I'm working through Lida's presentation with the pause button and glossary, one chunk at a time. Eventually, I'll be able to speak the language and know what I'm talking about.
Thanks for sharing so much great research--it's fun to learn something that matters so much and has the potential to change so many lives.
Marysue
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eClaire
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| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Nov 18th, 2009 15:02 |
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 Marysue, your fortitude and tenacity is to be admired. I cannot wait until the day when I am reading about Th1 illness and come across a scientific term and think "blah, blah, something biological...look it up on wikipedia." Right now I have to be satisfied with skimming (all my brain can handle)--feels more like reading buck shot--and going with my gut. I feel like I need the McGuffy Reader (for the uninitiated the McGuffy Reader was an early elementary school reading tool many years ago) for L forms. Claire
____________________
34mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings & covered up; home w/o NoIRs
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009
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marysue
Moderator
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Posted: Wed Nov 18th, 2009 18:58 |
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Too funny, Claire!! I "Googled" McGuffy Reader and found pictures of each of the books. I like the second one with the picture tutorial. If someone can find me the McGuffy Reader of cell biology, that would be great!
In the meantime I found a great online dictionary of cellular and molecular biology that is easy to type in words and search. The definitions are clear, short, and distinct. Any words in the definition that may also need to be defined are highlighted and hyperlinked so you can just click on the word to go to it's definition.
Here's the link (I saved it on my bookmark bar/favorites) for quick reference:
The Dictionary of Cell and Molecular Biology
Click on "Search the Dictionary" in the upper left corner to get to the dictionary search page.
Happy learning--
MarysueLast edited on Wed Nov 18th, 2009 19:01 by marysue
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