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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2006 20:10 |
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There is a new paper in Science, reporting that a tiny bacterium, with only 160,000 base-pairs in the DNA of its genome, has been identified.
As a point of comparison
Mycobacterium tuberculosis has 4.4 million base pairs
Rickettsia typhi has 1.11 million bp
Borrelia burgdorferi has 1.52 million bp
Staph aureus has about 2.9 million bp
There is an easy-to-read report on the paper at URL
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061012_tiny-genome.htm
"Previous work, for instance, found that a bacterial genome could be artificially pared down to minuscule sizes; but then the bug could survive only on the microbial equivalent of life support, bathed in a carefully selected nutrient mix. That the creature could live only in artificial settings suggested to some that the “minimal genome” concept was a bit fuzzy"
This type of pathogen could not be cultured, unless you knew the exact balance of nutrients it needed to survive. Indeed, if you tried to seperate out cells containing this genome from a mammal then you would destroy that balance, and destroy the bacterium. In short, what is being described here is very similar to the concept that I have developed of the in-vivo pea-soup, of symbiotic, inter-dependent support between L-form pathogens.
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eClaire
Member in Phase 2
| Joined: | Mon Sep 25th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 859 |
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Posted: Sat Dec 16th, 2006 16:49 |
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Trevor,
You said: This type of pathogen could not be cultured, unless you knew the exact balance of nutrients it needed to survive. Indeed, if you tried to seperate out cells containing this genome from a mammal then you would destroy that balance, and destroy the bacterium. In short, what is being described here is very similar to the concept that I have developed of the in-vivo pea-soup, of symbiotic, inter-dependent support between L-form pathogens.
Does this mean that there is a possibility that some of the bacteria that may have long caused us problems did not survive as other bacteria invaded and potentially interacted with and changed the nutrient base? While I have been coming up with my own lay person's understanding about why symptoms seem to wane altogether, it has not included the idea that these pathogens died because of the nutrients becoming out of balance. I ask this because I am hoping that there is a chance that while I am very sick, I may not be quite as sick in this moment as the 40+ years of illness suggest. Of course, only going on the journey and seeing what immunpathological symptoms arise, will give me a better idea.
Thanks, Claire
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38mo on MP; CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermob. IBS/GERD osteopor.; 125D48 25D<4;
NoIRs during most daylight outings & covered up; home w/o NoIRs
Ph1.Dec06 * ModPh2.Jun07 * AbxBrk.Mar-May08 * Ph2.Oct-Nov08 * Ph1.Jan2009
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gulfvet
Banned
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Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 20:27 |
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e clair
they seem to express their own pedigree s? for each person.
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tick bite and rash in 86 sick ever since, I have had every SYSTEMIC problem assoc. with Th1 except brain shut off. Avoiding D & sun/light 01/07 benadryl occasionaly/started benicar 02/07/07
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Frans
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 22:48 |
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Hi,
I can only read the abstract, but the gist should be clear, especially note them saying:
- hypothesize that mixtures of bacterial DNA are an important causative factor in the pathogenesis
Sound familiar?
PMID: 17320342
Sincerely, Frans
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Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
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NickBowler
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2008 12:45 |
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A bit more on interdependence of competing bacterial mixes here:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19726414.900-bug-slimes-surprising-effect-on-disease.html
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Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
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nbassal
Health Professional
| Joined: | Thu Jan 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | Sydney, Australia |
| Posts: | 8 |
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Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 10:20 |
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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: There is a new paper in Science, reporting that a tiny bacterium, with only 160,000 base-pairs in the DNA of its genome, has been identified.
There is an easy-to-read report on the paper at URL
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061012_tiny-genome.htm
Fantastic research that lends some weight to the Lforms idea and cetainly supports the theory that mitochondria where at some stage foreign to cells and have become so symbiotic that we would die without their energy production machinery. Thanks for the link.
Last edited on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 10:25 by nbassal
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 17:38 |
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The obvious question is why should Homo sapiens be significantly different from the insects? Why doesn't Homo sapiens have bacteriocytes?
Oh wait .. it does..  The secret lies in the "vacuoles."
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NickBowler
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sat Mar 7th, 2009 10:41 |
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It seems there may be a lot more cooperative behaviour amongst bacteria in the pea soup than was realised previously, no doubt another reason why it is so hard to eliminate:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126981.800-the-selfless-gene-rethinking-dawkinss-doctrine.html
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Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
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Cynthia Schnitz
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Sat Mar 7th, 2009 18:13 |
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| Thanks. The biofilm comments on page 2 gave me an example I was looking for to answer my significant other, as he put me on the spot when I said that the organisms in biofilms cooperate. Cynthia
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Ph1 10/08, Ph2 12/08, Ph3 6/09, 125/25D 47/43 preMP, 25D14 12/09, Estradiol .75mg, Calcium anomaly(gone?), Spondylitis, early Diverticulosis, early Macular Degeneration(AMD), Type II Diabetes (unconfirmed,PreDiabetes?), returning sense smell
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SI
Member in Phase 3
| Joined: | Fri Sep 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Sydney, Australia |
| Posts: | 46 |
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Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2009 04:59 |
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biofilms- interesting new research: Scientists Learning to Target Bacteria Where They Live
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/08/AR2009030801778.html?referrer=emailarticle
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FM, fatigue, asthenia, insomnia, RLS, 09/09 25D <5.2, Ph1Oct07, Ph2Dec07, Ph3Mar08, ibuprofen, working, NoIRs, covered
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kenc
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2009 18:48 |
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| I wonder if biofilm dispersing agents such as cis-2-decenoic acid could be useful for the protocol?
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Crohn's Disease 1984, 24May05 1,25D=33 25D=8.4, 6Sep05 1,25D=29 25D=12, 11Jun07 25D=<10.4 1,25D=10, 15Sep07 1,25D=14.2 25D=16, 12Jul05 Phase1 + pred, 12Jul06 Phase2 + pred/dexa, 14Aug07 Phase2, prednisone, dexamethasone, testosterone, aspirin, levothyr
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