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P.Bear R.N.
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Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2007 08:05 |
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I found this interesting, and it may help explain why so often serum levels of iron will test low in chronic infectious states; and why replacement may not usually be a good idea.
P.B.
http://www.biosci.utexas.edu/mgm/People/Faculty/profiles/payne.htm
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2007 08:26 |
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Thanks PB, thats an excellent explanation of why Th1 folk should not be unduly worrying about their low iron. And it allows perfect meshing between obesity and low iron levels, something the authors of this study were unable to do
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN2934050920070904
..Trevor..
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Freddie Ash
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2007 21:19 |
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HI PBEAR
This is Fred in WV. I want to share a story about low iron. Back in July 2005 I was in a restroom with a nosebleed and a man came in and started talking to me about the nosebleed. I told him that I had a disease called sarcoidosis that caused it. He then told me his wife was in a local hospital because she had Lupus. He said her iron got so low they put her into the hospital and started giveing her something for it and it made her worse. I shook my finger and said,"YOU DOG GONE RIGHT IT WILL. WITH THESE DISEASES WE HAVE LOW IRON AND IF YOU TAKE SOMETHING FOR IT, IT CAN MAKE YOU WORSE." I told him the best thing was to just keep a close eye on it, but she should get on the Marshall Protocol and I told him how to find it on the internet.
Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.
Your friend in sarcoidosis
Freddie
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Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-meds digitek, L-thyroxine, nexium, furosemide, nattokinase36mg,eat cinnamon w/meals,25D-7; 125-D43
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Lee
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2007 21:50 |
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| I too have the low iron values ....and have just started using my iron skillets more and more. Is this wrong? Should I toss these skillets? Thanks! Lee
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2003 SARC w/COPD Hyper-Flex Fibro.
D ratio-2.13 Ph1-2/05 Benicar| 4/05 PH2| 06 Ph3| 2008 D25-9.7 silymarin/sunlight w/noirs
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P.Bear R.N.
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Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2007 23:03 |
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Lee, I might not toss the lovely cast iron, but would avoid cooking acidic foods that would absorb much more iron. We need some iron and I don't think we need to be total fanatics about avoiding foods that have iron. I think we just don't usually want to take any supplements unless it is absolutely determined to be medically necessary; and slightly low levels should not be the indication to replace. I found a link that shows that iron cookware does indeed increase iron in foods, and that acidic foods tend to suck up the most iron here:
http://whatscookingamerica.net/Information/IronCastIron.htm
Best, P.B.
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Lee
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Wed Sep 5th, 2007 23:24 |
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Thanks PB! Good to know as some of them are family heirlooms .... Lee
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2003 SARC w/COPD Hyper-Flex Fibro.
D ratio-2.13 Ph1-2/05 Benicar| 4/05 PH2| 06 Ph3| 2008 D25-9.7 silymarin/sunlight w/noirs
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Grace
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Sep 6th, 2007 02:33 |
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DH's iron was real low since he got sick for years.The medico people all said "your a male, your iron should not be this low with out losing blood".He had many tests over the years to try to find a source of blood loss.....there was none of course.He was place on iron tabs, which didn't do a lot for his iron levels.He stopped these when started MP.Then his iron went through the roof.Doc 'freaked',I just said "Isn't that interesting ",and reassured him it will come back down...and it has.
Grace
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CFS, oct04 Ds=26/48, 4/07=7/24 MP PHI 2/05, PhII 6/05, PhIII 6/06, beni Q6H, Noirs rarely inside no nature light low watt, outside 40%10%, Hat, all covered, no gloves, paracetamol
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Joyful
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Posted: Thu Sep 6th, 2007 05:58 |
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Late Saturday morning regularly finds my husband in the back room of the old fly shop across town. The owners are in their eighties and enjoy the small gathering of old friends that show up pretty often to engage in small talk on many subjects including fly fishing.
The wife has low iron. The doctor's solution has been to give her a blood transfusion every month or so. This really perks her up for a while.
The joke last week is that since the blood was from all types of donors and most likely many young donors, she is increasing her diversity and reversing her age!
Lots of Th1 "clues" with many of the folks in that group.
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Thu Sep 6th, 2007 06:31 |
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Joyful, as far as I can see, Th1 pathogens start to dictate the 'health' of just about everyone as they age. If you draw a graph of 25-D levels vs age, they drop steadily after age 40. Something is happening, even during 'healthy aging', that we really ought to understand a little more
There is a branch of medicine which is starting to look at Immunity and Ageing. Here is a short letter I recently wrote to the editor of one of the journals:
http://www.immunityageing.com/content/3/1/12/comments
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Joyful
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Posted: Thu Sep 6th, 2007 10:21 |
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Perhaps someone will stand up and take notice in this arena!
Your letter spells it out well enough Dr. Marshall, but people just don't have "grid" to taking the information in.  (You could start your own fiction series to popularize the concepts, I suppose.)
Back to the topic of pathogens and iron...
A few years before the Crohn's Disease symptoms became obvious for one of the male members of my family, he was tested for an abnormal gene for Hemochromatosis. I guess it is thought that some people with this genetic abnormality will end up with serious organ damage from iron overload.
Their words were, "...in you the gene abnormality is located in a section that only occasionally causes trouble. ... The technical description of all this is that you are homozygous for Hemochromatosis at the 187-nucleotide locus of the gene."
They went on to recommend testing every 5 years for iron overload for the rest of his life. They also recommended avoiding high doses of vitamin C, multivitamins containing iron, excessive alcohol consumption, and they suggested getting immunizations against Hepatitis A & B!
I am curious about the reason behind their immunization recommendations.
I would be interested to see if these types of "genetic defects" would retest the same following a long term treatment with the MP. From the reading here on the study site, I would suspect that the genes have been "broken" by the infectious organisms and have the potential to be restored if the infectious agents were eliminated. Is that possible?
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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scooker48
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Sep 6th, 2007 21:45 |
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This is very interesting.
If one cooks with stainless steel cookware, made of chromium, nickel and iron, it has an oxide layer of chromium which protects the food. Or so the metallurgists explained to me in the hallway just now. However, if one is cooking an acidic food, such as tomatoes, it would dissolve the oxide layer faster.
I think the important thing is not take supplements, but the cookware issue is "food for thought"...or "food for the bacteria"? LOL
Sherry
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Necrotizing granulomas biopsy 10/88; Dx 12/04 Sarcoid liver spleen. 2/2/05: VitD 25/VitD125 62. 5/9/09 D25, D3 6; D25 D2 <4, Liver function normal 4/08; Wear NoIRs outside. No K creme used. 5/09 Liver and kidneys normal.
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Martin78
Member in Phase 1
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Posted: Thu Nov 1st, 2007 00:25 |
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Hi
Since I started feeling (really) sick in May I have tested Iron, Trensferrin and something called "transferrinsaturation" three times.
My Iron and Tranferrin is normal, but my "transferrinsaturation" is low at 16% (ref range 15%-57%).
I remember to have read something in the "bloodwork" section about bacteria needing iron to grow. I wonder if it is this that is shown in the low transferrin saturation?
BR
Martin
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Sjøgrens Syndrome|Fatigue|wt loss|itch|night sweats|pain|ancle|legs|ches|irritat|depr| hypercalcemia|initial 125D 98|Probe Apr08|Valium| 25D30 Jan15.09|Ph1 Jan15.09|visit my site: http://www.youngsjogrens.com
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Posted: Thu Nov 1st, 2007 02:47 |
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See My doctor says I'm anemic. What should I do?
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Martin78
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Posted: Thu Nov 1st, 2007 03:47 |
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Thank you Meg
I will print it out and ask my doctor to educate me on this. I read the thread, but I am not sure if my levels are according to what you expect in chronic innflamations.
I didnt know that my low ferritinsaturation was making me anemic. My iron is lower end at 13,4 (9,0-34,0) Transferrin is normal 3,4, and my Hb is alway normal from 14,5-15,7.
Its seems like you are working alot nowadays so I have restrained myself from asking to many questions. ( I ask them in the new site) but the limited medical ones I dare myself to aks here at mp.com. Hopefully I will be able to reopen my "Martin on Benicar" thread soon.
You are doing a great job!
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Sjøgrens Syndrome|Fatigue|wt loss|itch|night sweats|pain|ancle|legs|ches|irritat|depr| hypercalcemia|initial 125D 98|Probe Apr08|Valium| 25D30 Jan15.09|Ph1 Jan15.09|visit my site: http://www.youngsjogrens.com
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Cocoa
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Posted: Sat Nov 10th, 2007 09:02 |
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Hi All,
I've found this thread really interesting because eversince I became unwell I've had consistently low ferritin in every blood test I've had. Prior to becoming unwell my ferritin was always approximately 100 or more.
Since being unwell, it has varied from 25 to 60... and this was with regular supplementation!
When I read the information on the site about the bugs utilising the iron, it made a lot of sense why my iron has been low since being unwell.
BUT, what is really fascinating is that since starting MP I have stopped ALL iron supplements (as is necessary) and on my first blood test two weeks after starting MP my ferritin when up to 104!!! And the next test showed it to be 66. Wow! And please bear in mind that I stopped supplementing iron which I was doing pretty regularly.
That makes me smile. Cocoa
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CFS, POTS, rickettsia, tachycardia, 125D46, MP 8/07, ModPh211/07, florinef for BP, Lamictal, clonazepam, melatonin, NoIRs, limited outings covered up, low lux home, 25D12 Sept 07
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Claudia
Member in Phase 3
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Posted: Thu Jan 17th, 2008 15:00 |
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When I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism (from Hashimoto's thyroiditis) I had iron-deficiency anaemia. Doctor ordered me to take iron supplements for a month before he even gave me any thyroxine. BIG mistake. (Not his fault, but had we only known about the MP...) My iron levels came up, yes, I guess because I was ingesting enough to feed myself and all those iron-hungry bacteria! The awful part was I felt more fatigued than ever before and my arthritic joints hurt more than ever before. I was depressed, in pain and had to give up my work as a massage therapist after 25 years.
Once I started thyroxine my life turned around, as I got most of my energy back and my thinning hair started growing back - but my arthritis was as bad as ever.
Fast forward 1 year - I found the MP and began phase one. Within days of starting mino I began to experienc a metallic taste in my mouth. Could that metallic taste be ... metal? Can't prove it, but my ferritin levels shot through the roof! You can read my phase 1 posts on my thread:
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum20/5902-1.html
I reckon all those iron-sequestering CWD monsters were dying and giving up all the iron back into my bloodstream. After a couple of months, my ferritin levels came down to normal again and the metallic taste went away at the same time.
So there you have it.
 Claudia
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MP Phase1 23Mar_06; Phase2 July 10_06; Phase3 Nov 4_06. Dx Thyroiditis (Thyroxine); arthritis; glaucoma; CFS (1988-92);Kidney & bladder probs. Feb06 1,25D=43.3; Aug07 1,25D=27.5; Feb06 25D=44; Aug07 25D=28; Nov07 25D=36; Mar08 25D=16.4
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Cocoa
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 04:26 |
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Hi Claudia,
That is a really interesting idea... my first blood test a few weeks into the MP saw my ferritin levels shoot right up to just on the upper limit of normal (after having been on the other end of the spectrum for years) and then subsequent tests a few months later show the ferritin being half as much as that initial test but still well within normal limits.
I didn't get a metallic taste... but your idea may explain why the levels shoot up and then go back to normal!
My cheers, Cocoa
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CFS, POTS, rickettsia, tachycardia, 125D46, MP 8/07, ModPh211/07, florinef for BP, Lamictal, clonazepam, melatonin, NoIRs, limited outings covered up, low lux home, 25D12 Sept 07
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 04:49 |
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When I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism (from Hashimoto's thyroiditis) I had iron-deficiency anaemia. Doctor ordered me to take iron supplements for a month before he even gave me any thyroxine. BIG mistake. (Not his fault, but had we only known about the MP...)
Iron depletion (low serum ferritin) does not prove iron deficiency anemia. Anemia is common in chronic disease and iron deficiency anemia should be verified before an iron supplement is ordered. See My doctor says I'm anemic. What should I do?
Within days of starting mino I began to experienc a metallic taste in my mouth. Could that metallic taste be ... metal? Can't prove it, but my ferritin levels shot through the roof!
Periodic increases in ferritin which correlate with MP meds suggests liver inflammation.
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Kas
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 05:01 |
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Amazingly, one of the things my doc has NOT worried about, is my low iron levels. She learned in med school that folk with autoimmune diseases often have it and that we should not be supplemented. She says she would only worry if my haemoglobin levels went too low.
My niece in Australia was 24 when she got colon cancer. She also has celiac disease. It is now a year after her surgery and chemo ,and her iron levels are so low, she goes into the hospital for transfusions, as the pills do nothing to help. I wonder if they are doing the right thing for her?
Even with my low iron levels, I have never suffered the fatigue others seem to. I am one weird specimen, that's for sure!!!
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Sarc Dx by splenectomy 03- Lungs, lymph nodes, liver. Non MP meds: natural progesterone cream three weeks a month; cal/mag; probiotics; milk thistle daily; cranberry caps prn; quercetin prn.Noirs outdoors and under flourescent work lights, Spectra 3 cream
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Posted: Fri Jan 18th, 2008 05:04 |
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| Low Hgb and Hct are also not a cause for concern in someone with chronic disease. Fatigue is not caused by low stores of iron.
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