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MS (Multiple Sclerosis) is a Th1 disease
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall  

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Jvancan
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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 14:23

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Sorry I talk about viruses :dude: but today the HHV-6 Foundation brought out this newsrelease:
http://www.primezone.com/newsroom/news.html?d=87395

The inflammatory demyelination of nerve cells in a live primate model after exposure to the HHV-6A virus has now been demonstrated for the first time.

I know this doesnt mean HVV-6 is causing MS, but I remember Dr. Marshall said in a discussion on BMJ that if there is one auto-immune disease caused by a virus, then it would probably be MS.

Do MS patients have low 1,25D-levels? Or is there no info on that?

Frans
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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 14:44

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Jeroen,

In this link you will find a study that has just been done to measure the 1,25D levels in people with MS.

It looks like this is the first study to do so.

http://tinyurl.com/a93yn


I have emailed dr Kragt some months ago, to ask when she will publish. Sge said the numbers have been gathered, but the analyses yet have to be done. I have told het that I expect the levels to be much higher :D

I have also emailed Ellen's professor about this research, since they work in the same university hospital in Amsterdam, VUMC, and they might both benefit from this information. Especially since Ellen's professor is going to start Ellen on the MP that has a certain link with 1,25D... ;).

Hope this helps a bit, maybe there already is someone with MS on the MP?

Sincerely, Frans



____________________
Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
dsiebenh
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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 15:34

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I was dx with MS in 1999, and Chronic Lyme in 2004. Only in 2004 did I find out that the sx and the typical tests cannot distinguish one disease from the other. They both cause loss of muscle coordination, measurable loss of nerve transmission capability, and brain and spine MRI lesions.

The only reason I was dx with "MS" in 1999 was that a Lyme ELISA test came back negative. I only found out that this test is worthless in 2004, when I was tested positive for borrellia by both Bowen and Igenex. Once I had those positive tests, the dx became Chronic Lyme. But I've had the same sx all along.

MP has certainly caused a strong herx for me for the last 10 months, but no lasting benefits as of yet.



____________________
Bulls Eye Rash 1988, MS Dx 1999, Chronic Lyme Dx 4/04. No D in diet 9/13/04. NOIRs 10/15/04. Phase 1 12/1/04, Phase2 1/24/05, Phase 3 5/26/05. 1,25D=52 pg/ml 10/23/04, 40pg/ml 1/10/05 30pg/ml 6/16/05 24pg/ml 10/7/05. 25D=7ng/ml 10/7/05.
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 15:56

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I have no doubt that MS will succumb to the MP.

The viruses are easy to find, and possibly involved in the infectious cascade, but they are just a red-herring.

I have (limited) data now, including MS folks who are already responding to the MP. The (old) BMJ comments were made on the basis of published literature, and have been superceded by more recent knowledge

Last edited on Thu Oct 6th, 2005 16:06 by Prof Trevor Marshall

Jvancan
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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 16:19

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I have emailed dr Kragt some months ago, to ask when she will publish. Sge said the numbers have been gathered, but the analyses yet have to be done. I have told het that I expect the levels to be much higher

Thanks for the link Frans.
Yes we all indeed expect a higher 1,25D level, while they probably expect a lower one :P. They also state in the abstract that they have done this study because of there is a lower incidence of MS in sunny countries like the mediteranian. And they think that it comes these people make higher vit. D levels. So if they indeed did the test well (frozen) then the results could be quite surprising for them :D.

P.S. Thank you Dr. Marshall for editing the subject header ;)

Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 22:20

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Here is an example of the type of study which had initially side-tracked me into thinking viruses might play a part in MS
http://www.primezone.com/newsroom/news.html?d=87395

But what these scientists are forgetting is that a monkey is not a human. Animal models have failed to predict human autoimmune disease time after time. So, while this study sounds very persuasive, it will fail to be replicated in man.

Note the sentence "an exceptionally strong, statistically significant association between HHV-6A and both multiple sclerosis and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is consistently seen." Well, we know they are 100% wrong with CFS, and the initial response of MS patients to the MP is showing them 100% wrong with MS as well.

Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 22:24

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Oh - there is a possibility I may be stating the lemma incorrectly, and HHV-6 variant-A might in fact be conditioning the immune system (through mutation) thus causing the CWD to run rampant. But the same outcome is in play - get rid of the CWD and you get rid of the disease.

Aussie Barb
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 Posted: Thu Oct 6th, 2005 23:09

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dsiebenh

re "MP has certainly caused a strong herx for me for the last 10 months, but no lasting benefits as of yet." see also this post from Dr Marshall

says in part quote verbatim: "I do think it is important that CFS and Lyme patients do face up to the extent of their illness, however. Think about this - it takes 2 years or more for the bacteria to be killed, at the fastest rate your body can kill them. It is absolutely amazing what that quantity of bacteria must have been doing while they were living in your tissues:X"

all best, Barb ...



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lisa66
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 Posted: Fri Oct 7th, 2005 20:08

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I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis 10 years ago and I have been looking for a cause ever since.  I have always believed that it was either bacterial or viral related.  So far I have tested positive for the HH V-6 virus antibodies, Mycoplasma and Borrelia bacteria.  My 1,25  D level was 53 which is considered high.  Any attempt, and there have been many, to strengthen my immune system or destroy bacteria have failed to stop the progression of my illness.

I have been on the Marshallprotocol for 3 1/2 months now.  My Herxheimer reaction was fairly strong in the first two months.  Some of these reactions have subsided and some are still strong.  It is very difficult for me to tell the difference between Herxheimer reaction and a progression of the illness.  I think it is too early to tell at this point.
I am optimistic that if anything is going to work to stop the progression then it will be this protocol.



____________________
Multiple sclerosis 10 yrs, osteoporosis,?Lymes,
4/05 1,25D= 53, 25D= 35, 11/05 1,25D = 30, 25D = 18. Taking baclofen,Detrol, acidophilus.Avoiding all vitamin D,sunlight,NOIRS, Benicar 40 mg Q6H. minocycline 100 mg Q 2days. Started Phase2 12/05
dga5000
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 Posted: Sat Oct 8th, 2005 15:15

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Can anyone let me know if HHV-7 has any importance in TH1 related illness?

Dan



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CFS dx 1995; FMS 2000; Memory Loss; + Chlamydia Pnemoniae; + LMW Rnase L Protein; Alk Phos 131; MP: 14/01/05: Bolle Swisher w/ 100 lenses + NOIR 707; Betahistine Hrydrochloride 16mg (vertigo); Benicar stopped; Minocycline stopped; Added Quercetin 7/8/5; P
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sat Oct 8th, 2005 18:32

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Dan,
The common viruses have become suspected of causing Autoimmune diseases because they are easily observed after the immune system, weakened by the Th1 pathogens, has been unable to eliminate them. But they do not cause the underlying disease.

See, for example,
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2334/5/78/abstract

Something like "being seen at the scene of the crime" but not actually committing it...

Frans
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 Posted: Fri Dec 5th, 2008 14:14

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Hi all,

I just came across a report on using vitamin D3 to 'cure' MS.

Growing evidence is linking increased levels of vitamin D to decreased MS risk, but one question is, "Will vitamin D supplements protect people from developing MS?" First, we’d need to know the safety of increasing supplementation in people with MS. Jodie Burton, MD (St. Michael’s Hospital, Toronto) and colleagues compared administering escalating doses of vitamin D3 (the equivalent of 4,000 to 40,000 international units per day) to 25 people with MS over 52 weeks, with 24 untreated controls. Calcium levels remained within normal limits. Immune system analysis showed that reactivity of T cells – major players in the MS attack – was reduced. Trends toward clinical improvement were noted, but they were not significant. The group is now planning a phase II study of vitamin D supplementation that will focus on MRI and clinical endpoints.

(link here: - http://tinyurl.com/5oxrwv )

Now, when looking through this, several things are 'quite puzzling'.

These two sentences are the most interesting:

1 - Trends toward clinical improvement were noted, but they were not significant


So, they are not cured, not even close ...


2 - reactivity of T cells – major players in the MS attack – was reduced


Which seems to indicate immunosuppression ...

Any thoughts ?

Best to all, Frans



____________________
Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
Joyful
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 Posted: Fri Dec 5th, 2008 16:51

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Hi Frans.

This study goes into that huge and ever growing file cabinet of evidence against D supplementation... written in the words of those promoting the use of D.

And it should be (again) filed under the category of studies that failed to measure serum levels of 1,25-D before, during and after the "treatment".

My guess would be that that the "trends towards clinical improvement" could include some that responded well (same as steroid use) and some who did poorly (because they were already too sick to respond to immune suppression). But they didn't actually give the details of individuals responded.



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SharonN
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 Posted: Sun Jul 10th, 2011 05:33

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If not posted already, here's a link to one of the articles Dr. Marshall referenced to in the video conference today:

Monkey multiple sclerosis discovered in Oregon suggests virus may cause human disease
http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2011/06/monkey_multiple_sclerosis_disc.html

How it ended up here in this older thread is a rather interesting chain of events which I hope to share in a later post.

For now, let's just say I'm constantly astounded by the insight and foresight generated by Dr. Marshall, his colleagues and the ENTIRE MP community as a whole!

On this thread, I especially like the comment:

Dr Trevor Marshall wrote:
Dan,
The common viruses have become suspected of causing Autoimmune diseases because they are easily observed after the immune system, weakened by the Th1 pathogens, has been unable to eliminate them. But they do not cause the underlying disease.

See, for example,
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2334/5/78/abstract

Something like "being seen at the scene of the crime" but not actually committing it...



____________________
MP Dec '09 (1 month break Sep '10) | Multiple diagnoses - mainly FMS, CFS, IBS | Born with measles, chronic successive infections / maladies, MS?, lyme symptoms, disabled '91 | Last 25D=10 Aug '10
Verena
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 Posted: Sun Jul 10th, 2011 11:51

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Hi,

the idea, that MS is caused by viruses is actually quite old. The current treatments for MS, using Interferon, are based on that idea. And of course, people are looking for proves of old ideas rather than going deeper into the matter.

V.



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*1973, Migraine s. 1976, Eye Inflammation 1992 - 2011, Multiple Sclerosis s. 2007, MP since Oct 09. Working fulltime.

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