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Marselle
Member in Phase 2/3
| Joined: | Tue Feb 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 38 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2007 04:59 |
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I don't know if this has been suggested before, but is it possible that brain herxes can cause depression due to the inflammation of the tissue resulting in an increase in histamine levels in the brain? I read up a bit about this and there seems to be a fair amount of research linking high histamine to depression and OCD, among other things. Apparently the histamine uses up the bodys methyl groups, and the body needs these methyl groups for the production of serotonin, dopamine and to do about a million other things. Therefore high histamine causes a shortage of good things. Histamine also functions directly as a neurotransmitter and can cause a variety of problems.
SAMe provides methyl groups so it can simultaneously lower histamine levels and aid the body in making "good" chemicals.
Obviously I'm not an authority on this so what I'm writing is my understanding of what could be going on here based on what I have read. It apparently has no side effects and simply helps the body with its natural processes.
Might it be feasable to use SAMe along with the MP meds?
Last edited on Wed Aug 29th, 2007 08:35 by Marselle
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Dec06 Dx:ME/CFS (7yr+ not Dx) / neuro,psoriasis,joints,fatigue/ Mar07:NoIRs (2%Outdoors,10% for TV),Daylight approx half hour a week with 2%Keto,No D / 12Apr07 Benicar / 26Apr07 Mino / 3Jul07 ModPhase2 / 16Jul07 25D:7.6 / 8Oct07 25D:7.2 / No non-MP med
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jcwat101
Research Professional
| Joined: | Tue Jul 20th, 2004 |
| Location: | Pasadena, USA |
| Posts: | 1453 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 29th, 2007 23:41 |
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I am pretty sure the answer would be:
ATTENTION: Unnecessary dietary supplementation and OTC medications are to be avoided because we cannot know how they might interact with the medications on the Marshall Protocol, or how they might affect the immune system.
Also, using SAMe and related substances would be in the category of combining the MP with another protocol and there could be unknown effects on the efficacy of the MP.
See the links Meg and Barb posted, above, for the MP's views on dealing with depression, anxiety and mental illness.
Joyce Waterhouse
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20 yrs with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, food sensitivities; 1,25D/25D 8/04:64/11 http://SynergyHN.com
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Foundation Staff
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| Joined: | Sat Jul 10th, 2004 |
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Posted: Thu Aug 30th, 2007 09:26 |
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| Joyce is correct about unnecessary supplementation. But we take intolerable depression very seriously. We don't want members to endure a depression that could be dangerous. If your depression is intolerable to you, please take whatever medication that works to help you feel better (including SAM-e) providing your doctor approves.
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Frans
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Fri Dec 28th, 2007 23:29 |
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Hi all,
I have been looking a little into serotonin and histamine. It seems a lot of anti-depressants and anti pschychotics work on these two.
What I found about serotonin was rather interesting.
It seems serotonin plays a role in oxidative stress. If serotonin binds to the 5-HTR 2 receptor it downregulates something called myeloperoxidase, thereby downregulating oxidative stress.
Now, the most interesting thing is that this receptor, which essentially is the serotonin 2 receptor (5-HTR is the chemical name), is expressed by the VDR... See the tables of Wang et al.
No, I am just a layman, so I hope someone with more knowledge can check the paper out to see if I am right.
This piece of information might be another reason why beni works wonder against pain. Simple explanation: if VDR doens't work, the serotonin 2 receptor isn't expressed, leading to oxidative stress going haywire.
PMID: 18041649
Sincerely, Frans
PS in the tables of wang et al one finds that a lot of serotonin receptors are expressed by the VDR (link to depression?), as are the histamine H1, 2 and 4 receptors (link to psychosis allergy?)
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Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
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Jeannine
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| Joined: | Sun Aug 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | USA |
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Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 08:04 |
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Frans,
Funny thing that you should be reading up on this subject. I find it very interesting since everything with me started with the diagnosis of depression then many years later Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and Lyme disease (which we know now is all the same..different color cats but all are cats) The Marshall Protocol has put me in a place that is indescribable when it comes to my depression. I had depression (pre MP) to the point of wanting to commit suicide many times not to mention life was a struggle everyday.
Mood swings were something that was a part of daily life for me. My TH1 symptoms started as depression then came the pain, fatigue, and poor sleep, daytime sleepiness etc etc...Antidepressants saved me but never have they relieved/gotten rid of symptoms....like the MP. I am now starting to live a life I have never known. I am not the first member to note this but I am amazed at just how good things are.....Of course when I herx the depression, moods and sleep can worsen temporarily...but when I am not herxing WOW WOW WOW. I just cant say enough about it. I keep getting amazed when I see the progress I am making. It is like a dream come true....a life I have never known.
Jeannine
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CFS FM Lyme Morgellon's Depression/Anxiety 125D49 Ph1Aug06 25D <4(april 08)Prozac Valium Aleve ModPh2May07 Ph2Apr08 NoIRs limited outings covered lo lux home
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Frans
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 23:51 |
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Jeannine,
Well, the plot thickens.
As I mentoined, several histamine receptors are also probably transcribed by the VDR, namely H1, 2 and 4. See Wang et al.
One thing that stands out once one looks into the histamine receptors is their role in sleeping.
The histamine H1 receptor is mentioned as being the most important receptor in the so-called circadian rhythm. This is a fancy word for what we know as bio-rythm, sleeping at night and waking at day.
So, if the VDR doesn't work, it seems only logical that our sleeppatterns get disturbed, since the main receptor regulating our biorhythm isn't there.
Sincerely, Frans
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Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 01:38 |
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As the section on clinical studies in my new paper concludes:"Surely we are being naive if we expect the exogenous modulation of a metabolism that is responsible for the expression of over a thousand genes to provide a simple go/no-go result?"
..Trevor..
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Frans
Member in Phase 2
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 20:05 |
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Hi all, I just found a paper confirming the Histamine H1 receptor as being transcribed by the VDR, see PMID 17547532.
This receptor is reported to be the most inportant in maintaining a normal circadian rythm, our biological clock.
So, sleepproblems are not really unexpected in these th1 diseases...
Sincerely, Frans
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Burn-out/nervous breakdown Jan01 125D 48 25D8.48 Ph1Nov06 ModPh2Jan07 Ph2Apr08 Cipramil Seroquel NoIRs lite exp r/t work cover up 25D3.9(Oct07)
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Joyful
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| Joined: | Sat Jun 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Restville, Again |
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Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 22:09 |
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Frans,
I truly appreciate your active investigation into these issues as I have been unable to sleep deeply without taking a small amount of an anti-histamine at bedtime.
Knowing that being on the MP is resolving the underlying cause of my sleep problems reassures me that I am on the right track.
Thanks!
~Joyful~
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Lyme?1980 Lyme/Babs/Bart?05 CFS?06 | Start 125D(50) 25D(32) Jun07 | Ph1Jul07 ModPh2Sep07 Ph2Feb08 Ph3Aug08 | Latest 25D(9) Apr09 | ABC of MP
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