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Autologous stem cell transplants
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
 

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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2015 07:15

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Interesting new paper explaining how the more aged or sick you are, the less it is going to help you to have an autologous stem cell transplant:

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/biores.2014.0042
"Aging and chronic diseases including CVD and diabetes substantially affect stem/progenitor cells of adult organism. Such conditions could restrict the effectiveness of autologous cell therapy in aged patients with CAD, lower limb ischemia, T2DM and other chronic pathologies, although these patients are some of the most obvious candidates for cell therapy. "
Nothing really new here, except that many companies (and University clinics) want to hype stem cell transplants as a panacea. I have spoken (at length) with those who perform the procedure, and they tell me that the really positive results you see on YouTube are few and far between, and frequently require yearly 'refresh' transplants. It is nice to have a detailed paper to help us discuss this issue when our friends and family are urging us to "have a stem cell transplant."

..Trevor..
 

leroybrown
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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2015 09:55

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What they forget to tell you is that after the radiation and/or chemo treatments to kill off your immune system, the 1 year survival from HSCT is about 50%.



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2015 12:05

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Deb, not all autologous stem cell transplant practitioners require you to undergo severe immunosuppression. For example, when I met Shimon Slavin 2 years ago, he told me was not doing this. I note that his website now implies that they are doing immune interventions of some sort, however.

I recall he did say they were removing the lymphocytes from the transplant medium, which I guess is indicative of an intent to reduce immune activity... He also made it clear that "cures" were not the norm, but a state of "disease remission" was more often achieved, requiring maintenance repetition of the transplants. Seriously ill patients were a problem for him, as this article suggests.
 

leroybrown
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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2015 12:30

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In the article I noticed they called it stem cell "treatments", so maybe it is something else. I know in horses you can have things like tendons injected with stem cells, so maybe it is something like that.

To me, what is the point of taking your stem cells and just putting them back - they were there in the first place, so why didn't they just do their thing while they were there the first time?

I know for transplants, they first give you neupogen to release excess stem cells from the marrow for harvest, then they kill - oh sorry - "condition" your marrow then they infuse the stem cells.

They are doing autologous stem cell transplants at my hospital for diseases like MS now. I read glowing reports and thought wow - but when I watched a video, they did say they were using heavy duty chemo. TGTBT (too good to be true).



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
leroybrown
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 Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2015 08:31

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Interesting article in the paper today.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/gordie-howe-stem-cell-tourist-experts-warn-of-worrisome-trend



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2015 10:00

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The article gets to the crux of the problem: "But it still will be years before the game-changing therapy is available as clinical treatment for patients, something that is hard for many members of the public to understand"

Why? If people are suffering and dying why is treatment being held back until it is generally regarded as 'safe'?  There is a huge gap between (desperate) patients' perception of "ready" and the industry's perception of "ready."
 

leroybrown
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 Posted: Tue Jan 13th, 2015 10:18

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I wonder if they're also talking about 2 different things? I watched videos presented by the local group (by Dr Harry Atkins) and they are talking about full body irradiation and/or high dose chemo and then an infusion of stem cells. Those types of treatments have around a 50% survival rate. Surely the treatment in Mexico is not the same thing? So the general public is hearing about some sort of stem cell 'treatment', the hospitals are talking about a different type of treatment - stem cell 'transplant', and because of the demand, they get govt funding.

I wouldn't call a 50% survival rate a very good treatment. I dunno.



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
Martha
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 Posted: Thu Jan 15th, 2015 07:39

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Northwestern University Medical Center's Dr. Burt is having very good success with autologous HSCT with MS achieving remission 10 years out and I believe no deaths in MS.

leroybrown
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2015 08:16

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Well, I am happy to say I stand corrected. The hospital here is ALSO doing a trial of stem cell treatments that DO NOT require chemo.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawa-patients-sought-for-testing-of-stem-cell-therapy-that-offers-hope-for-ms



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
Martha
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2015 15:27

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 I've noticed all kinds of places touting their successes with "stem cell therapy". I saw on TV the other day a chiropractor advertising it for pain. It probably does temporarily help symptoms. But the people who have successfully achieved remission that I've talked with say it's the chemo in the HCST that halts the AI disease (some diseases better than others) and the autologous stem cells help the immune system to recover quicker.
I believe the MP can work and am giving it my all. It is helping me so far with some symptoms....but there may come a time where I have to do something more drastic with scleroderma. My 9 y/o son whom I became pregnant with while on the MP is positive for SD antibodies and has a high sed rate and high ANA. I keep my eyes wide open for him and my other sons.

leroybrown
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 Posted: Fri Jan 30th, 2015 17:01

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I met with the transplant team at my hospital a couple years ago, but they use the chemo and / or full body irradiation method.

I did more reading about the mesenchymal stem cells and it seems they don't know if they can become any type of cell, they have a long way to go yet.

How long have you been on the MP Martha?

Deb



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
Martha
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 Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2015 12:02

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Deb,

I've been back on MP since March of last year. I had started originally back in 2004 and was on it for 6 months for scleroderma and became pregnant at 45 years old and of course stopped the MP. After I gave birth to my son, at about 6 months post partem (after nursing him), I tried to go back on the MP. I was only able to hang in there on the MP for about a year because I couldn't drag my sorry bum out of bed to care for him. My BP was so low and I was so fatigued I just couldn't continue on the MP with a toddler. After d/c'ing MP, I did OK for a quite awhile with diet, etc and my disease slowly smoldered. Up until last March when my breathing and cough started getting bad again. I'm respiratory therapist by trade and so I recognized my SOB and heart palps as possibly symptoms of pulmonary hypertension. That's when I decided to get back on the MP last March. And once again my heart palps and cough and dyspnea went away. The difference this time was I also began the baking soda/salt water in 1.5 L of water/day. It has really helped me with the fatigue and maybe even palliated my symptoms.
After a year, I'm doing ok. I'm not any worse and feel I might be getting better in some ways.
I remember about 8 years ago, when I was doing some internet surfing, I came across a doctor at Johns Hopkins having  good success with aplastic anemia patients in high dose chemo without reinfusing stem cells. I remember his emphasis was in aplastic anemia. He said that the stem cells came back on their own after the chemo. Anyway, I'm not sure how long you've been plugging on MP...I could try to find that docs name if you'd like. I actually spoke with him on the phone-very nice man.
~ Martha



Last edited on Sun Feb 1st, 2015 12:07 by Martha

leroybrown
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 Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2015 12:34

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Hi Martha,

This study with cyclophosphamide was stopped due to toxicity. I was offered that drug and refused. I also refused campath and prednisone and another whole pile of immune suppressing therapy. I tried cyclosporine, IVIG and an ATG-tacrolimus combination before giving up on conventional medicine.

http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/124/18/2758?etoc=&sso-checked=true

I'm glad the extra salt and baking soda are making the difference for you this time.

Deb



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
Joyful
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 Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2015 14:16

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Wow Deb.
Your post led to a real "aha" moment for me...

I was curious about what Tacrolimus could possibly be.
Now I know, it is from a bacteria culture from soil. This quote leads to interesting thoughts...

Tacrolimus (also FK-506 or fujimycin, trade names Prograf, Advagraf, 'Protopic) is an immunosuppressive drug used mainly after allogeneic organ transplant to reduce the activity of the patient's immune system and to lower the risk of organ rejection. It is also used in a topical preparation in the treatment of atopic dermatitis (eczema), severe refractory uveitis after bone marrow transplants, exacerbations of minimal change disease, TH2-mediated diseases such as Kimura's disease, and the skin condition vitiligo.

It is a 23-membered macrolide lactone discovered in 1984 from the fermentation broth of a Japanese soil sample that contained the bacterium Streptomyces tsukubaensis. It reduces interleukin-2 (IL-2) production by T-cells.

... it was among the first macrolide immunosuppressants discovered ...
So, bacteria can be used to suppress production of cytokines (IL-2 in this case)?
Hmmmm...

Last edited on Sun Feb 1st, 2015 14:17 by Joyful



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leroybrown
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 Posted: Sun Feb 1st, 2015 14:21

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Cyclosporine was found from bacteria or fungus in soil too.



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
lorenzo von matterhorn
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 Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2015 02:19

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Human Embryonic Stem Cell-Derived Oligodendrocyte Progenitors Remyelinate the Brain and Rescue Behavioral Deficits following Radiation


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/shots-brain-cells-restore-learning-memory-rats



http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/abstract/S1934-5909(15)00005-3

Here we tested whether human ESC-derived oligodendrocytes can functionally remyelinate the irradiated brain using a rat model.

Last edited on Tue Feb 10th, 2015 02:24 by lorenzo von matterhorn



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Joyful
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 Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2015 15:04

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Are they saying they un-mylenated the rat's brains using radiation? :shock:

Last edited on Tue Feb 10th, 2015 15:04 by Joyful



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wirion
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 Posted: Wed Feb 11th, 2015 03:21

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Very interesting (to me at least).

I also didn't know that myelin was provided by oligodendrocytes in the brain, I thought it was Schwann cells everywhere. It's weird that two different types of cells provide almost the exact same function, but in different ways. The Schwann cell seems to sit on the nerve itself (with its nucleus) whereas the oligodendrocyte sits apart and casts up to 50 Schwann-like myelin wrappers onto multiple nerve segments. This is what I just read on the wikipedia, but I thought I'd share anyway. ;)

So for restoring the brain's sensitivity against EMF, and generally reducing brain fog I guess those oligodendrocytes are at least as important as Schwann cells. Please someone correct me if I got this wrong.



____________________
CFS EBV Ph1Apr07 Modph2Jun07 Ph3Sep07 abx brk Nov07-Jan08 Jul08-Sep08 July10-? 25D<5(Jul08) 25D=5(Nov09) 25D=5(Nov10) 25D=3(Mar12) 25D=6(Oct12) 25D=5(Feb14) 25D<8.0(Jan15).
lorenzo von matterhorn
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 Posted: Wed Feb 11th, 2015 03:58

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For those with brain problems, more important, if you ask me!
I think Dr. Marshall's theory for myelin damage was bacteria in the
Schwann-cell and the cell sits on the myelin so it's easier to see that
myelin could be damaged too. But what happens in the brain? If the Oligodendrocyte doesn't sit on any cell what causes the myelin damage?
Or is the cell always connected to each and everyone of the myelin sites?


Without that cover, known as the myelin sheath, nerve cells can’t transmit information, leading to memory and other brain problems.


It's pretty amazing that they used human cells in the rats and it worked!
As I understand from the article that means it will be a shorter journey towards human trials.



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Emotional&cognitive issues, food intolerance 125D50 25D19 PH1Sep09 PH2Oct09 (28/01)25D3.6 low lux nada sun
leroybrown
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 Posted: Wed Feb 11th, 2015 04:04

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They used embryonic stem cells, so I don't know what the status of that type of research is. I was wondering if human cells worked in rats, would rat cells work in humans?



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h

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