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DianeC
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Posted: Thu May 10th, 2007 16:04 |
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Trevor,
I certainly agree about the denial issue. I even spoke with Tom's dentist regarding this upcoming procedure and brought up the issue of the pathogens/infection and my concern regarding the cwd bacteria. I also mentioned the Marshall Protocol and that I am doing so well and that Tom has the same bacteria. He had no clue as to what I was talking about
As for any infection he stated that Tom will be given penicillin to take care of any infection in teeth and surrounding tissues He mentioned the usual bacteria which is all that mainstream medicine cares about. So frustrating!
For the dental procedure.....Is penicillin okay to take with the 200mg of mino that Tom is taking per day or is there another abx that is recommended?
What is more frustrating is that Tom sees the progress I have made but can not comprehend the fact that he is ill when he feels well
DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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P.Bear R.N.
Research Team
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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2007 02:29 |
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Diane, Since this dentist seems so fixed in his ways, Tom will have to settle for the Penicillin; that should be OK with the mino since he is not on the MP.
best, P.B.
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MCS, neuroborreliosis, fatigue, tinnitus, neck/facial/shoulder/lumbar pain, Bells palsy, Prostatitis, blurry vision, dizziness, 1,25D=48, MP2/05 MP3, cytomel, D25<5
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DianeC
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Posted: Fri May 11th, 2007 03:55 |
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Thank you P. Bear ,
At least I have assurance of something regarding Tom's upcoming procedure. This really has me concerned so I hope that he is going to be okay after all is done.
If they decide that he is a candidate for the bone graph and implant it will be a year before he is done
I wanted him to see the doctor and have blood work before starting the dental procedure but now there is no time. He has been on Minocycline since Jan 11. I started taking his blood pressure again and at 3PM yesterday afternoon after running around doing errands it was 124/62 which was great! He does take a blood pressure medicine as well in the morning. His blood pressure usually runs higher in the morning.
Best wishes...... 
DianeC
Thanks again and Best wishes.......
DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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DianeC
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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2007 04:05 |
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Tom's appt for his root canal is mid week and I am very apprehensive about this I can't seem to get my mind on anything else.
I have been reading and doing alot of research and wondered if it is true that when they kill the nerve in the tooth with something that I believe was formaldehyde or whatever it is that kills the nerve, that the tissue dies and then starts to rot and can actually be the start of or cause the existing cwd bacterial infection to spread faster throughout the system triggering some horrific symptoms.
Tom's symptoms are: periodonal disease, elevated cholesterol, triglycerides and blood pressure (colon cancer survivor of 10 years) although I suspect that the minocycline he has been on since Jan. may possibly be lowering his blood pressure??
Tom has been on 200mg of mino per day....should he be taking a probiotic? Do men also need the probiotic? I have Culturelle from NEEDS which is suppose to be superior. I still have it in the refridgerator. I took it previously but for some reason stopped as it seemed strong or something? Maybe we both should start taking it?
He feels great and never complains as most of the above symptoms are evident as the result of blood work so therefore he does not "feel the symptoms" like you would an inflammatory flare or other symptoms that manifest themselves physically and are debilitating. This is why I am having such a hard time convincing him that he is ill.
If after the root canal, they find that he is a candidate for the bone graph and implant that will even be more worrisome as the bone is from cow or bovine, not to mention all the other things that could go wrong?
I just wish there was another alternative. I am just hoping and praying for the best
DianeC
Last edited on Sun May 13th, 2007 05:23 by DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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jrfoutin
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Posted: Sun May 13th, 2007 13:45 |
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Diane,
Per probiotic, you may want to read Dr Marshall's post on Jigsaw's thread today:
I am personally not convinced that probiotics are helpful to the healing process, as their function appears to be via stimulation of the innate immune system in the gut.
So if they work for you, keep using them, but if you are just following what you read in, eg, 'Readers Digest' I would suggest re-evaluating what they are really doing for you
Your husband's medical history speaks to chronic inflammatory disease. So does my DH's history. Convincing as my recovery has been, my husband is absolutely sure his past multiple symptoms or those existing at this time have nothing to do with anything I might propose. This opinion is not based on science or even any study of it. It is an emotional decision to trust existing health care perceptions and logic has a difficult time penetrating that facade.
I hope the best for both of you.--Janet
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Sarcoidosis 125D61, MP10/05 ModP2 12/05 Ph2 6/06 Ph3 10/06, NoIRs limited outings covered, 2/08 25D6.2
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DianeC
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 03:23 |
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Thank you Janet,
That is an interesting statement regarding the probiotic. I am also on the fence about taking it. I did take one last night before bed (Culturelle from Needs) which is suppose to be the best.
I am just not sure if Tom should or should not take it? Back when he was on doxy, he took a liquid probiotic. How does one really know either way if it is beneficial or not??
I suppose one could take it a couple of times a week?
Supplements anyway all seem to be trial and error and what works for one may not necessarily work for someone else.
I am sorry to hear that your husband too, does not see how he could benefit from MP.
Sometimes I think they have very short memories..........my husband does not even like to have discussions about it but will every so often and then just turns off and will not discuss it any further.
My great fear is that if the time comes when he will agree to it, it may be too late
Wishing you and your husband the best too!
DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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Dr Trevor Marshall
Research Team
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 03:36 |
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How does one really know either way if it is beneficial or not??
The corollary is more interesting to me - how come MP folk who are taking multiple antibiotics for year after year, certainly enough abx to kill off any existing flora, how come these folk still have a functioning GI tract without taking probiotics??
Here is a paper by Dave Relman which goes into some aspects of this issue:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=17238278
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eClaire
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 11:03 |
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| Not that this will help with your husband, but to underline for other folk that avoiding having a root canal while on the MP is probably the best, as it may/will probably resolve itself as you get better. I've been sick with Th1 illness for most of my life and have ended up having, unfortunately, a number of molars pulled pre-MP after having an utter failure of a root canal, which was also a financial disaster. After the root canal and crown, the dentist said that the area was infected down into the jaw bone and so the dentist ended up going back in and drilling through the jaw bone to where the roots would have been and packing the area with abx. So I got the root canal, the jaw surgery, the expensive crown, and still a couple of years later the entire thing sort of erupted from my mouth, as if my body were expelling a foreign object. Had to have it pulled to ease the pain. It was the most expensive (over time) procedure I ever had done to my mouth. Lots of money flowed from my pocket into the pockets of dentists. Hope this helps someone, Claire
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CFS FMS MCS COPD hypermobility IBS/GERD osteoporosis 125D48 25D8 Ph1Dec06 ModPh2Jun07 NoIRs limited outings covered up low lux home abx brk 3/2/08 to 5/25/08
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DianeC
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 19:57 |
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Hello Claire,
Thank you for sharing your story with me. I am sorry to hear about all that you have had to go through. Thanks also for answering my E-Mail so quickly!
Tom is still going ahead with it. I did inquire at the dentists office and they can do a porcelin crown instead of a metal infused porcelin crown so at least that is something favorable.
I was just checking to be sure that he had enough of his pre-meds (amoxicillan 500 mg) He always takes 4 of them 1 hour before all of his appts.
He said "I am not taking them anymore" The last day that he was there he was informed that the FDA does not recommend it anymore before dental appts. Well you can imagine my reaction!!! I am insisting that he still take them! He is still so trusting of the medical profession
1) Is there any reason why he should not be taking them before his appt to protect his heart from bacteria he would swallow during the procedure?
2) Is there any reason why it would not be safe for him to take them before this procedure. Is amoxicillian contradicted if he is given penicillin?
Earlier when I spoke to someone at the dentists office I had asked if Tom had an option of whether or not he needed the root canal and they said that it has to be done. That it is after the root canal in which he has choices but that the root canal has to be done regardless of any other decisions.
Still feeling very apprehensive........
DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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Belinda
Research Team
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 21:39 |
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In the past, the American Heart Association has published antibiotic prophylaxis guidelines for dental procedures for people at high risk of cardiac infection. The American Heart Association recently revised their guidelines that had been in effect since 1997, as reported by the American Dental Association. The AHA now thinks antibiotics prior to dental care may not work as intended (to prevent infective endocarditis) and should be reserved for the highest-risk patients.
The American Heart Association's new guidelines about antibiotic prophylaxis, which are available on their website - are something you may want to discuss with the dentist.
The AHA published a press release April 19 explaining their new recommendations. Notice their mention of "allergic reactions" to antibiotics that may be what we've explained as immunopathological response.
Belinda
Last edited on Mon May 14th, 2007 23:02 by Belinda
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DianeC
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Posted: Mon May 14th, 2007 23:34 |
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Hello Belinda,
Thank you for providing the links pertaining to the new ADA recommendations. Tom already does take 200mg of minocycline which he has been taking since Jan 11th for the acute bacterial infection which has contributed to his periodontal disease.
1) Which class of bacteria is the one that is detrimental to the heart? The cell wall deficient bacteria which responds to minocycline or the other class of bacteria that the medical establishment recognizes?
If I understand correctly, the use of the abx that mainsteam medicine uses actually contributes to the formation of the L-forms, cwd bacteria, mycoplasmas. Would Tom be better off taking a booster say of Z or C? There has been research about Z protecting the heart which makes me think that the cell wall deficient bacteria is the culprit.
What would you do in his situation?
Earlier this evening I called a mutual friend of ours who has had alot of root canals, etc. She was very surprised that they would even be considering doing an implant on a man Tom's age especially with his history of the gum disease. He has always respected her opinion as I am too close to the situation. Her phone battery went dead during the conversation but I think she may have gotten through to him regarding the implants and bone graph. She said just do the capping and bridging and all is permanent. Nothing needs to come out of the mouth. I think he was surprised to hear this!
After the root canal from what I understand has to be done, there will be a consulation to discuss the possibility of having the implant and bone graph. So there is HOPE!!!
Thanks so much Belinda and all who have responded to my posts! I am very appreciative!!
DianeC
Last edited on Tue May 15th, 2007 02:23 by DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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DianeC
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Posted: Tue May 15th, 2007 02:27 |
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Thank you Trevor! That is a very interesting paper! It surely is thought provoking.............
DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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DianeC
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Posted: Fri May 18th, 2007 02:16 |
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Tom had his root canal appt yesterday and I now feel like a heavy burden has been lifted off my shoulders
It appears that our mutual friend was able to get through to him afterall the night before the appt! I was stressing out about this appt but what I did not know was that Tom had already decided against the implant and bone graph just prior to the appt.
So as I was talking to the dentist there was no opposition to anything I was saying and I flat out told him that Tom is too old for this very invasive procedure to be done. So it was agreed that he will have the tooth that had the root canal filled and gold will be used instead of any other metal to reinforce the capped tooth. Once that eye tooth is done it will be hard to notice that there are not any other teeth behind it.
Tom actually did not understand the whole plan so I am just so relieved that he does now.
If only our mutual friend had influence regarding MP. He just may listen to her as he won't from me I will never give up so time will tell
Best wishes to all!
DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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DianeC
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Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2007 00:00 |
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It has been a relief that Tom had decided against the very invasive periodontal implant surgery and bone graph. Tom has been taking 200mg per day of minocycline for close to 6 months.
He has a doctor's appt for early July which was the earliest appt he could get. I have noticed that his stomach appears very bloated and that concerns me (Actually my stomach is also bloated)
I have the following questions:
1) I am wondering if it is because of the minocycline? Should that be a sign that he should stop the abx or start taking a probiotic?
2) I am confused by the fact that taking daily minocycline for an acute infection does both kill the pathogen and act as an immunosuppressant at the same time??
3) Being that the cell wall deficient bacteria are slow growing, would it be okay for Tom to either quit taking it for awhile or scale back and either take only 100mg per day or take 100mg every other day? Would either of these dosages be just as effective?
4) I understand that this type of bacteria do not become resistant and therefore minocycline will continue to work even after taking breaks from using it??
I spoke to Tom's dentist the other day and mentioned another dentist who rubs the abx on the gums. At that point he stated that the periodondist in the office does a non surgical procedure by placing tetracycline in the sulcus (periodontal pockets)
I am attaching a link pertaining to this where they use minocycline for this non surgical procedure and tetracycline along with the gum surgery if the condition becomes chronic. Of course we would never agree to the surgery.
5) Is tetracycline contradicted if you use minocycline? Our dentist stated that they use tetracycline.
Thank you and Best wishes............
DianeC
http://www.ipanw.com/non_surgical_periodontal/adjunctive_tx.html
Last edited on Mon Jun 4th, 2007 00:06 by DianeC
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chronic fatigue/osteoporosis osteoarthritis, 9/05 25-D 40 1,25-D 52 1/06 Benicar 40mg Q6H Mino 28Jan @25mg q48h Mino 12Mar @50mg q72h Mino 15April @75mg q72h Mino 1May 100mg 5/06 Phase 2 D-25 18 10/06 Phase3 D-25 20 5/07 D-25 under 7
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Aussie Barb
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Posted: Mon Jun 4th, 2007 03:30 |
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Diane
MP.com is a study site. Our expertise involves helping people understand how their symptoms are related to Th1 inflammation and how to resolve that inflammation with the Marshall Protocol. This is outside our expertise to give an adequate reply.
Your Dentist and or Dr can be consulted re these questions.
Thank you, all best, Barb ...
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Barb: Dx Inflammatory Disease Endocrine Imbalance 2003| 24+ years not Dx| ABCofMP
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