The Marshall Protocol Study Site Home

Search
   
Members

Calendar

Help

Home
Search by username
   Not logged in - Login | Register 
The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > At last - the slow pace of medical research is being criticized


At last - the slow pace of medical research is being criticized
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
 

New Topic

Reply

Print
AuthorPost
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15729
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Nov 5th, 2007 16:15

Quote

Reply
Please take a look at "A Research Revolution" at URL
http://www.newsweek.com/id/68221

Andy Grove was Time's 'Man of the Year' in 1997.

From the outset we have modeled the Foundation, and its study sites, on open collaboration. Every single piece of data you folk report goes into the database and it is available not only to us, and to the FDA, but also to researchers who come along in the future, and who might have some better ideas of their own to add.

I saw this model being used in the 1980's to fuel the BBS revolution, 1990s for the development of open source software (GNU and Linux), and also feeding the early development of the Internet. So it is not entirely my idea. I am sure Andy Grove is very familiar with how it drove the advance of computer technology.

I think Dr Grove would be very interested to hear about our work in this Foundation. If any of you have some moments spare that you can use to try to contact Andy Grove, or his staff, and let them know that there is a new way to conduct clinical studies, and it does work, and it is producing answers right now, I would be very appreciative.

Suggest he should look at Amy's report about young Matt's recovery from neurological disease. It is at URL http://bacteriality.com/2007/10/28/interview6/

Many hands make light work :):)
 

Last edited on Tue Nov 6th, 2007 14:37 by Prof Trevor Marshall

Russ
inactive member
 

Joined: Fri Mar 24th, 2006
Location: Hartford, Connecticut USA
Posts: 812
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 01:40

Quote

Reply
This is a great quote:

"The peer review system in grant making and in academic advancement has the major disadvantage of creating conformity of thoughts and values. It's a modern equivalent of a Middle Ages guild, where you have to sing a particular way to get grants, promotions and tenure. The pressure to conform [to prevailing ideas of what causes diseases and how best to find treatments for them] means you lose the people who want to get up and go in a different direction. There is no place for the wild ducks. The result is more sameness and less innovation. What we need is a cultural revolution in the research community, academic and non-academic. We need to give wild ducks the opportunity to emerge and quack their way to success. But cultural change can be driven only by action at the top."

Dr. Marshall, I guess you are a "wild duck",.  :):):)  (In the same way that Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton were "wild ducks"!) 



____________________
*** I recently moved to Connecticut so if anyone knows of MP docs in this state or nearby, please send me a PM. ***
kathleen
inactive member
 

Joined: Tue Jul 13th, 2004
Location: New York, New York USA
Posts: 352
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 13:35

Quote

Reply
Hi.

I just blogged Andy Grove and Esther Dyson about the MP - who knows? Maybe they'll look at the website and contact you. They both like the internet and science, are very interested in medical research and have public voices, being regular guests on Chalie Rose.

Next, to find someone who can get YOU on Chalie Rose...

XXOOO Kathleen



____________________
CFS '86, LTD '86 (50 yrs old)pacemaker - total heart block '99 fatigue, cognitive, sleep, digestion, dysautonomia, weakness, headache, tinnitus, IC, new anemia 9/9/04 D,25 44 - D,125 76 4/05 D,25 24 4/05 Ben 40mg/6hrs, Mod Ph 2
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15729
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 13:52

Quote

Reply
I met Esther back in the 1980s. She and I used to attend the Silicon Valley IEEE Workshops at Asilomar, back then. When discussing how to design better computers was all the rage... I doubt she would remember me, but who knows?...
 

kathleen
inactive member
 

Joined: Tue Jul 13th, 2004
Location: New York, New York USA
Posts: 352
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 14:16

Quote

Reply
Esther was on Charlie Rose about 2 months ago and professed a stong interest in innovative health research. More like the million dollar personal scan type of thing, but then she didn't know about your work.

You never know - maybe one of them will email you - I hope!

XXOO Kathleen



____________________
CFS '86, LTD '86 (50 yrs old)pacemaker - total heart block '99 fatigue, cognitive, sleep, digestion, dysautonomia, weakness, headache, tinnitus, IC, new anemia 9/9/04 D,25 44 - D,125 76 4/05 D,25 24 4/05 Ben 40mg/6hrs, Mod Ph 2
wrotek
member


Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2004
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
Posts: 2894
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 16:09

Quote

Reply
BBSes - very popular over Ham Radio, via packet radio technology. I love it.

Oh my, and here http://bbsdocumentary.dreamhost.com/photos/127leif/ 
is bbs running on  Commodore C64, i used to have this computer. Good old days. :) I think i will telnet this particular c64 as soon as I will find out where is telnet client on my windows vista.




____________________
Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
Jeff
inactive member


Joined: Mon Jun 4th, 2007
Location: Delaware USA
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 21:39

Quote

Reply
Here's some more grist for Andy Grove's mill: a report on a rare Borreliosis fatality that strongly associates the patient's Parkinsons with Lyme:

http://www.canlyme.com/lymepark.html

Kathleen, can you try to pump this through to Mr. Grove?

My Lyme was diagnosed as Parkinsons by doctors who don't believe in Lyme. Of course I was offered Levdopa.

Jeff

Edit from Trevor: Please don't talk with Andy Grove about Lyme causing Parkinsons. It is not true, Borrelia does not cause Parkinsons, and the assertion  makes us look like quacks. Parkinsons is found all over the world, in climates where Borrelia is not present.

 

Last edited on Wed Nov 7th, 2007 06:05 by Prof Trevor Marshall



____________________
Lyme/neuro Parkinson's 125D41 Ph1Sep07 Ph2 Mar08 Ph3 May08 NoIRs coverup 2h lite daily driving D25<7 May08
kathleen
inactive member
 

Joined: Tue Jul 13th, 2004
Location: New York, New York USA
Posts: 352
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Nov 6th, 2007 23:20

Quote

Reply
Hi.

I don't have any special access to Mr. Grove. I just left a message on his blog. I'll try to forward your link, or you can google him and send it.

Who knows, he might respond to just plain us?

Kathleen



____________________
CFS '86, LTD '86 (50 yrs old)pacemaker - total heart block '99 fatigue, cognitive, sleep, digestion, dysautonomia, weakness, headache, tinnitus, IC, new anemia 9/9/04 D,25 44 - D,125 76 4/05 D,25 24 4/05 Ben 40mg/6hrs, Mod Ph 2
ShrnHml
...


Joined: Fri Jul 16th, 2004
Location: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Posts: 814
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Nov 7th, 2007 00:14

Quote

Reply
This from Google with an entry of "Contact Andy Grove"

Andy Grove on Code Success: Andy Grove

Note from Trevor: The wrong Andy Grove, so I am deleting the rest of the links
 

Last edited on Wed Nov 7th, 2007 05:26 by Prof Trevor Marshall



____________________
Neuroborreliosis, MP 3/05, 1,25D 62; 3/06 25D<4, ModPh2 12/05, Premarin, Effexor, stopped Benicar 1/07....no longer in study
Jeff
inactive member


Joined: Mon Jun 4th, 2007
Location: Delaware USA
Posts: 31
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Nov 7th, 2007 05:40

Quote

Reply
Sorry Shrn, but yours is not the same Andy Groves. If I can manage the time, I will snail-mail Mr. Groves at Stanford.



____________________
Lyme/neuro Parkinson's 125D41 Ph1Sep07 Ph2 Mar08 Ph3 May08 NoIRs coverup 2h lite daily driving D25<7 May08
Linda J
inactive member


Joined: Tue Aug 10th, 2004
Location: Aurora, Nebraska USA
Posts: 265
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Nov 7th, 2007 06:06

Quote

Reply
I agree with Mr. Grove to a certain extent, but dealing with human beings is a far cry from dealing with computers, because a mistake with computers doesn’t have nearly the same repercussions that mistakes in medical research pose to human beings. Economic loss is a far cry from loss of life or disability. When dealing with human diseases, mistakes can cost major disability, pain, and death; a price that makes economic loss pale in comparison. This is one of the arguments for why medical research is going at such a snails pace. And I think that it is a valid one, since being harmed by research for the sake of progress in research is just as heinous as the Nazi science experiments on people were.

 

Of course, all those people who are subjects of studies who are not being helped end up also suffering and dying who might otherwise be saved. But medical research hasn’t advanced far enough to allow them to proceed without being cautious to a significant degree. With a computer, if something doesn’t work, you just get rid of the mistake, go at it from a different direction, and nobody mourns over the loss of that computer. With people, it is a different ballgame.

 

He is right about the fact that the peer review system is limiting diversity in research, and as a result research in general is being locked into unproductive directions. But there is a growing trend towards people doing their own searching for answers, instead of just blindly accepting the word of their doctors. And they are driving research in new directions.

 

There is research in areas that wouldn’t have otherwise been done if people hadn’t started looking for answers themselves. If people’s willingness to take things into their own hands hadn’t developed, Dr. Marshall’s ability to do the research that he does wouldn’t exist. So there are changes happening. Just not the changes that Mr. Grove would like to see in mainstream research.

 

It seems to me that he isn’t making the same efforts to look at alternative possibilities for treating his disorder. He is still expecting someone else to find the answers for him and hand them to him without any effort on his part. So of course all he sees is l-dopa.

 

The vast majority of people who are on the Marshall Protocol are people who weren’t just recruited for a research study, or people being covertly watched. They are people who have stopped depending on the medical system to provide answers for them, and started hunting for those answers themselves. So to some degree I don’t think it is just medical research that is slowing down the progress of medicine, but the general lack of people willing to push past the medical system to find answers for themselves, rather than waiting for someone else to hand it to them on a silver platter. What makes the Marshall Protocol successful is the determination of the people on it to fight for their right to choose medical care for themselves, rather than just having to depend on a doctor to hand them all the answers.

 

If Mr. Grove were really seeking answers, he would have found the Marshall Protocol by now. It’s out there in plain sight on the internet, and has been around for long enough that if Mr. Grove had been looking, he would have found it by now. Anyone who starts searching for answers can stumble across it. If I can put two and two together, Mr. Grove could, too. But the article makes it clear that he is still expecting his doctors to find the answers for him. And all he can do is complain about the slow progress. He is handicapped from being able to do anything about it for himself beyond complaining.

 

And I have no doubt that if someone hands him the answer, or points him to the Marshall Protocol, he likely won’t be bothered to actually look it over for himself, but instead will depend on those same doctors who are the mainstream researchers. In other words, he won’t accept wild ducks any more than peer reviewed publishers will.



____________________
Lyme thyroiditis IBS MVP PTSD MCS SAM-e Claratin low lux NoIRs 25D<4 (Oct 6, 2014)
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15729
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Nov 7th, 2007 08:12

Quote

Reply
Linda,
If everybody who could be helped by the MP were to come to this study-site it would collapse under the load, and none of you would be able to get through to get help. The moderators are already stretched to their limits.

What Andy Grove is saying is that the methodology being used to spend the huge amount of money being provided by the public for scientific research is totally wrong. There is no accountability. None at all. And that lack of accountability stretches all the way from the medical schools, to the medical journals, through PhRMA, to the NIH and the FDA.

This Foundation is here because volunteers are working their knuckles to the bone trying to help folk who are ill. The staff at NIH are quite content just to draw their paychecks, and, as Jim Kiley said when he spoke at our Chicago conference, not one penny is spent by NIH in search of a cure. It is spent to advance individual academic careers. That is what NIH sees as the job it has been given, to advance academic careers, not to find cures (take a look at his slides, he has a slide showing exactly that).

Andy Grove would not be using Google to look for this study-site because we are an anomaly. Too good to be true. We need to let him know that it exists, at least for the present, and that the folk here have achieved a breakthrough beyond his imagination.

And, sad to say, unless we can transition to a properly funded model it will be very hard for us to continue in operation as the number of members continues to grow.

That's why it is so important for us to engage mainstream medicine right now. Not next year. Right now.

Trevor

scooker48
Member*


Joined: Mon Jan 3rd, 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, California USA
Posts: 1712
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Nov 7th, 2007 14:17

Quote

Reply
I contacted Sharon Begley, the author of the article "A Research Revolution" as published in Newsweek magazine, asking her to forward Dr. Marshall's comments.  I contacted Dr. Andy Grove's office at Intel, and sent an email to his assistant.  Therefore,   I believe we have contacted Andy Grove.

Sherry



____________________
D25, Total: 12 measured 11/3/15 Started MP=01/04/05 Diagnosis: Sarc 12/04; "cat scratch disease" or necrotizing graunulomas 10/88; Raynaud's (diagnosed 1980?)
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15729
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Nov 7th, 2007 17:49

Quote

Reply
Thanks Sherry. You live in Andy's backyard :) Let's wait and see if there is any follow-up.
 

Russ
inactive member
 

Joined: Fri Mar 24th, 2006
Location: Hartford, Connecticut USA
Posts: 812
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Nov 8th, 2007 04:17

Quote

Reply
Thought I'd add that when informing others about the MP, I've found it helpful to mention or include a link to the CDC paper published last year which stated that "infectious agents likely determine more cancers, immune-mediated syndromes, neurodevelopmental disorders, and other chronic conditions than currently appreciated." 

I think many people's initial reaction to the idea that things like cancer and diabetes are caused by chronic infection is that this is "crazy talk" that couldn't possibly be true.  But show them that CDC paper and maybe some similar papers published by reasearchers at Stanford University (http://tinyurl.com/4akm7, http://tinyurl.com/ybfo8l, http://tinyurl.com/yxlqks), and then suddenly they realize that this isn't "crazy talk" at all, and they become a lot more interested and curious.

Along those same lines, I've had the thought that maybe that CDC paper and others like it should be pointed out more prominently on MP.com and/or ARF.org.  For those of us who are sick and come here desperate for a treatment that works, we end up reading the site for days and will eventually find our way to the page that lists these and other studies (ironically, I just quickly looked for that page and couldn't find it).  But for someone like Mr. Grove, who visits the site after we contact him about the MP, he may only spend 5-10 minutes of his busy time looking at the site and it would be a shame if he dismissed it as a crazy theory without ever realizing that there are "mainstream" researchers from places like the CDC and Stanford that also feel that chronic infection is the cause of many diseases. 

I think once an "outsider" realizes that the idea of chronic infection causing all these diseases is a "legitimate" theory, they will be more likely to spend the time it takes to absorb the vast amount of information at this site.  And as we all know, the more you read, the more you realize how obvious it is that Dr. Marshall's model of the pathogenesis of these diseases is spot on.

Just my thoughts.

Last edited on Thu Nov 8th, 2007 04:18 by Russ



____________________
*** I recently moved to Connecticut so if anyone knows of MP docs in this state or nearby, please send me a PM. ***
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15729
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Nov 8th, 2007 06:27

Quote

Reply
Russ, we need a lot of work done on the study-site, and on the websites in general. Janet produced a new homepage at http://AutoimmunityResearch.org for us, but she and I are really busy right now, and we are basically struggling just to keep things running from day to day.

We desperately need volunteers to create Google Adwords landing pages, and the reference and basic pages you suggest.

Luckily, Amy and Paul have done such a wonderful job with Bacteriality.com and it is currently our best entry-point for people like Dr Groves.

In a few minutes I will put up an announcement about the special session on VDR at the upcoming International Congress on Autoimmunity, and I think this effort, on which we have been working hard  behind the scenes, is also something which would key a Dr Groves into the realization that our science is real and solid.

In February I produced a review paper detailing the Vitamin D action on the immune system which cites the CDC paper you mention (and others). Unfortunately I have not been able to find any journal with the guts to publish it. Far too controversial, unfortunately. Andy might also appreciate a copy of this, and I would be happy to send him one. It illustrates beautifully his argument about publishing and peer review being the gatekeepers of the medieval guilds. If it hadn't been for the way we managed to use the Internet to get the word out, there would be no Marshall Protocol, and no Foundation to push forward our efforts into "mainstream medicine."
 

Brienne
inactive guest
 

Joined: Wed Sep 19th, 2007
Location: Kissimmee, Florida USA
Posts: 3
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 10:20

Quote

Reply
Dr. Marshall, as you know my husband is a physcian, (a general and plastic surgeon). He has been astounded by my health improvements to the point where he has begun treating some of his own patients.  We have been thinking about contacting "Dr. Oz" from the Oprah Winfrey television and radio show.  He is about the most "broadminded" MD I have heard speak. (He is a CT surgeon).  He is also much more mainstream and has a wider audience than Andy Groves.  More importantly, his audience expects him to introduce new and unusual therapies and are receptive to the information.  (unlike the conservative crowd of Newsweek, etc.)  It would be great if we could get you on the radio show or (Oprah, TV) 

Let me know if this is a direction in which you would like to proceed.  We have contacts in the entertainment industry and could potentially make this happen. (only if you want)

SSLOUIS

sslouis
...


Joined: Mon Feb 7th, 2005
Location: Orlando, Florida USA
Posts: 52
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 10:22

Quote

Reply
Sorry, I just realized that I posted the last comment under my sister's log-in which was saved on my computer.

 

SSLOUIS



____________________
Pituitary tumor, osteoporosis, SVT, scoliosis| Advil, Lunesta prn, trazodone prn, Atenolol| MPSept07| Vit D 25 Vit D 1.25-87. Spinal fusion x 8.
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15729
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 11:03

Quote

Reply
sslouis,
Yes, now I am happy that the science is complete. The last breakthrough was understanding how the bacteria could shut off the VDR to stop transcription of the antimicrobial peptides, and that by so doing they produce the cascade of disease manifestations which we see in the inflammatory diseases. So it is a very good time indeed.

Now that we have been invited to sponsor, and chair, the special session on VDR and Vit D at the 6th Intl. Congress on Autoimmunity in Sept 2008, which Greg Blaney and I will be addressing, the run up to that event is going to be a period of momentous change for us.

It is going to take a long time for Medicine (and the public) to lose their obsession with the multitude of separate inflammatory diagnoses which come under the Th1 umbrella (the VDR umbrella) (the Spectrum of VDR disease) but now the science is (relatively) complete, it is a good time for that process to start.

I would appreciate any help you can give us.
 

kathleen
inactive member
 

Joined: Tue Jul 13th, 2004
Location: New York, New York USA
Posts: 352
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sun Nov 11th, 2007 14:02

Quote

Reply
As I watched Dr. Oz on Oprah last week saying that now we have treatment for Fibromyalgia/CFS, and he was talking about... the usual thousands of dollars worth of basically useless suppilments... I wished that I could think of a way to get through to him. I think that he really means well.

I have a cardiologist at Columbia Prespertarian where I think Dr. Oz is on staff, but I don't know if that would help - maybe.

Coming from another doctor, he just might listen. That would be so great.

Meanwhile I'm working on a letter the the right Andy Grove.

Kathleen



____________________
CFS '86, LTD '86 (50 yrs old)pacemaker - total heart block '99 fatigue, cognitive, sleep, digestion, dysautonomia, weakness, headache, tinnitus, IC, new anemia 9/9/04 D,25 44 - D,125 76 4/05 D,25 24 4/05 Ben 40mg/6hrs, Mod Ph 2

 Current time is 00:47
Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  



* We can help you understand chronic disease, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care *

Powered by WowBB 1.7 - Entire site Copyright © 2004-2019 Autoimmunity Research Foundation, All Rights Reserved
Click here to view our PRIVACY POLICY
Page processed in 0.0566 seconds (73% database + 27% PHP). 16 queries executed.