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Keynote at Gene 2008 - China, December 2008
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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Nov 4th, 2008 22:52


*** There is more discussion of this topic at Reflections on my visit to China ***


****************************************************************
Stop-Press:
The HD video of my keynote presentation at WCG 2008  is now online. You can find it at:
http://www.vimeo.com/2585394

The presentation I gave at West China Hospital consisted of a repeat of the WCG 2008 science overview (above), and a presentation focusing on clinical issues. This is the first time I have reviewed the Protocol itself for several years, and I hope you enjoy taking a fresh look at what we have all achieved:

http://www.vimeo.com/2599416
Janet has finished the Transcript of the Keynote presentation at the World Gene Congress. You can download a copy from:

http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/transcripts/WCG2008_Keynote_Transcript.pdf

Thanks to all who worked so hard producing this transcript:)
 
****************************************************************
I have been asked to present a keynote at the "Gene 2008" conference in China in three weeks time :) Here are the conference details:
http://www.bitlifesciences.com/wcg2008/

After that presentation, Liz and I are traveling to West China Medical School / Sichuan University
http://www.cd120.com/
where we will be giving a seminar and talking about possible collaboration to bring the MP to China.

West China Medical Center has 4000 beds, and treats 2 million patients a year (including outpatients).
 

I am fascinated to see if the Chinese medical system might more quickly take up our discoveries than U.S. medicine. Obviously their medicine is socialized in China, so there is pressure to actually cure people.

But I was thinking of the pressure meridians in acupuncture, and I realized that the concept of systemic disease might be an easier one for China to understand. In the West we look at specialties by physical location, but the meridians of Chinese medicine tie the whole body together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acupuncture
 
We are entering a busy and interesting few months, I think :)
 

Last edited on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 12:54 by Prof Trevor Marshall

Joyful
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 Posted: Tue Nov 4th, 2008 23:25
Very interesting thought about the meridians.

I don't know if this is true, but I was told by a naturopath doctor during his 'introductory visit' that one of the reasons for Chinese medicine being results-oriented historically is two-fold. (1) if the person did not get well, the doctor was not paid. (2) if the patient was a high governmental official and they died, the doctor also had to die.

Now, somebody should check out the facts to see if it is true, but it presents an interesting contrast to the way medicine is practiced in the U.S. at the very least.



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kenc
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 Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 01:32
There is a story about a Western man seeing a Chinese medicine doctor for the first time. He's seeing the doctor to have his sore foot treated. The doctor sticks an acupuncture needle into the man's ear. Puzzled, the man says, "What's the connection between my ear and my foot?" The doctor has the man stand before a floor to ceiling mirror and says, "Look, whole body connected!"



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Ruth Goold
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 Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 11:33
Nice!!! - of course I thought about the MP when I received the notice for this conference.  Little did I know someone was doing more than 'thinking' about it...

Wish I'd signed up for it now but the connection to fisheries genetics is a bit too tenuous (but see track 4 :)).

I think the Chinese will be very open to at least testing the MP - very smart, practical and organized in my experience.  However, the bias against antibiotics is very strongly ingrained in educated Chinese people.  The two Chinese women that work in my group both suffer from inflammatory disease (one recently diagnosed with CFS/FM and the other with gestational diabetes during her second pregnancy; now, 4 years later she has developed full blown diabetes and is also hypothyroid). 

Excellent opportunity to get the ideas out to people who may actually be interested in them,

Ruth

 



____________________
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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 11:39
the bias against antibiotics is very strongly ingrained in educated Chinese people

Ruth, the key to the MP is the VDR agonist, not the antibiotics. Sure, the abx are necessary for full recovery, but I am thinking that once the physicians become comfortable with Benicar, and the way it simplifies weaning folk off prednisone, and the way it palliates so much of the pain, I am thinking that the antibiotic step may not be such a big one:)
 

Martin78
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 Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 21:34
Women Have More Diverse Hand Bacteria Than Men, According to CU-Boulder Study

New science supprises scientists... (refered to in a Norwegian Newspaper today)

...The sheer number of bacteria species detected on the hands of the study participants was a big surprise, and so was the greater diversity of bacteria we found on the hands of women," said Fierer. The study also showed that the diversity of bacteria on individual hands was not significantly affected by regular hand washing, he said.

The 332,000 gene sequences obtained by the CU team were nearly 100 times greater than those obtained from other studies of skin bacteria also obtained by sampling the entire DNA of microbe communities, known as "metagenomics." The new CU-Boulder study also confirms that standard skin culturing of human skin bacteria, a technique used by many labs, dramatically underestimates the full extent of microbial diversity, Fierer said.

http://www.colorado.edu/news/r/e13276bf11f17a902f6e68a7c364a13b.html

Interesting!

BR¨

Martin



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tickbite
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 Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 22:12
Good luck on your travels, Dr. Marshall. Sorry to hijack the thread with this Science Daily news article, but I definitely think it's an interesting development perfections aside. They say in the article that the team new what the mechanism is to turn on the arginase enzyme. Please if you have time figure that out for me......hopefully you have the subscriptions to look at the publication. Let me know what you think.

Parasites That Live Inside Cells Use Loophole To Thwart Immune Systemhttp://tinyurl.com/5uagsa




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Natalia
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 Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 22:27
Trevor,

Congratulations on being offered a keynote sppech at Gene2008- a big achievement indeed! The Chinese are likely to be a lot more open minded about your research as they have a very holistic perspective on human health, and believe not only in the interconnectedness between different parts of the body, but also between the mind and body. Concepts that western medicine is only now starting to grasp.

However, as an observational science, TCM is very much focused on improving patient symptoms in the short to medium term and may struggle with the idea that patients will feel worse for possibly years before they may improve (I would lay money on the fact that TCM doctors with patients on the MP would try to relieve patient symptoms with traditional herbs). So this may take some explaining but could also lead to some future collaborations on how to mitigate IP (and make the MP easier to complete) without disrupting the bug killing. TCM has an amazing range of herbs in their arsenal and an excellent practical knowledge of their effects.
  
Best of luck!

Natalia


Last edited on Wed Nov 5th, 2008 22:32 by Natalia



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Lottis
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 Posted: Thu Nov 6th, 2008 02:18
Congratulations!
I am sure the Chinese scientists will be very interested in The MP and the olmesartan effect on the VDR!
They already are  quite in the front when it comes to researching the VDR family nuclear receptors and its actions.

I want to share three links to understanding the meridians, being used and understood in our westerns culture.
I have personally tried the EFT, and I have a PC program to be used by my patients/customers in the rehabilitation progress. It is impressive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_Freedom_Technique
http://www.emofree.com/splash/EFT_video.asp
http://www.emofree.com/Research/genie-genes-review.htm


/Lottis

Last edited on Thu Nov 6th, 2008 02:50 by Lottis



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Lottis
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 Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 03:49
About the tapping;

Dr Marshall, do you think the tapping is producing frequency waves similar to those being produced in square wave technology?
http://www.squarewaveresearch.com.pa/how_support_health.html

I personally believe that the change of pH, that has been noticed after this treatment, could be the most important factor.

One alternative health practitioner, who has been involved in alternative health for the past seventeen years, has made some very important observations while using square wave frequencies with volunteers. He feels that the Rife machine does more than disable microbes in the body. In testing urine samples before and after 30 minutes of using it, in some volunteers he measured a change in body pH, from acidic to more alkaline or neutral.

And if my memory is not fading, we are once again, through the pH, returning to the P450 cytochrome...:?
What do you think?

/Lottis:)



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Dec 1st, 2008 04:27
No, I think that the pH has nothing to do with microbes (although pH change may well be a result of the NO release from some of the microbial genomes).

Similarly, Rife's discoveries were purely palliative, they have nothing to do with killing microbes.

Think about this - it is the key to understanding why Rife, and the other therapies out there, cannot be killing the intra-cellular microbes:
When you kill the microbes living within phagocytic cells then you will necessarily lose some of the previously-infected cells. Some from apoptosis, some from phagocytosis. When this happens there will be a cytokine release, and the patient will feel bad.
You just cannot have bug-killing of intra-cellular pathogens unless the patient feels bad. Anything which makes the patient feel better is not harming the intra-cellular microbes.

..Trevor..
 

Lottis
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 Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 07:43
Yes, you are right.
Palliation can do wonders for some time.
There are so many different factors that can make us feel better from time to time.

I am a bit foggy sometimes. I forgot also that other keywords;
"intra-cellular microbes living within phagocytic cell"
I forgot that these are the ones being targeted with the MP. Those are the ones that other treatments have a hard time to get rid of.

I forgot the main thing in the MP! Have I now gotten a hole in my brain!:shock:
:PIP is a good friend to blame!;)

/Lottis



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Bane
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 Posted: Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 20:25
Will the presentation be caught on tape? Best of luck in China!:)

TikBitten
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 Posted: Thu Dec 4th, 2008 21:30
Dr. Marshall-

Speaking of intra-cellular microbiota, it's reported that the average human has about 100 trillion cells making up their blood, tissue and organs...

Q1 - To what extent (percentage wise) does bodily tissue become infected with CWD pathogens in late stage patients? 

Q2 - Are late stage patients with motile spirochetal infections such as borrellia or syphilis worse off?

Your best "guesstimate" will do just fine....10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, etc,,,,100%?

Best regards,
TikBitten 

 

Last edited on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 00:23 by TikBitten



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TikBitten
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18th, 2008 21:32
Dr. Marshall-

Just reviewed your posting in the "Yogurt" forum http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum39/12969-2.html and realized that it might shed light on the last posting in this forum.  In Dr. Gordon's video presentation he mentions that the bacterial load in the human gut could be on the order of trillions of cells.  If that is in fact correct, I would like to rephrase the questions posted previously above...

Q1 - Since humans have, on average, about 100 trillion cells making up their blood, tissue and organs how can this be? 

Q2 - What is the nature and extent of bacterial metagenomics in the gut vs bodily tissue and organs of healthy individuals?  {Is it best characterized as little or no metagenomic evolution to more harmful (motile, toxic, etc) bacteria?} 

While I can understand how 1,25D and intra-phagocytic CWD bacteria suppress the adaptive immune system, what I still fail to grasp is....

Q3 - The nature and extent of bacterial metagenomics in the gut vs bodily tissue and organs of Th1 burdened individuals?  Namely, are there tissues, fluids or organs that CWD forms don't penetrate? Or is contingent upon traits being introduced the metagenome by motile forms (such as borrelia and syphilis) and which can transcribe enzymes that open up cell walls.

Q4 - If the CWD pathogens can infect more than phagocytes to what extent (percentage wise) do bodily tissues and organs in late stage patients become infected before they keel over and die? 

Q5 - Are late stage patients with motile spirochetal infections such as borrelia or syphilis worse off?

Q6 - Can Th1 patients ever regain bacterial balance of normal and healthy individual?  If so, are there specific probiotics that can be taken during the treatment protocol to begin to re-establish that balance? 

I know that's quite a handful but hoping it will not take too much time to expand upon it or direct me to sources on Th1 pathology that can.  

Best regards,
TikBitten 



Last edited on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 01:34 by TikBitten



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Dec 19th, 2008 02:32
Replies:
Q1: Hundreds of bacterial cells will fit inside one human cell. Look at the Wirostko photographs

Q2. Nobody has contemplated a flora outside the gut, except us. Further, nobody has really tried to understand what Gut bacteria really do. The text books still talk about interplay with the adaptive immune system, yet we now know it is the innate immune system which deals with Gut bacteria.

Q3. The infection is systemic, from head to toe. The metagenome determines which body systems will fail, and in what order.

Q4. The body is remarkably resilient. the human psyche (denial of a disease state) further adds to our stoicism.

Q5. There are no motile spirochetal pathogens which exist in living human beings. They only exist in dead tissue and not whole blood.

Q6. Absolutely. It is usual to recover totally, for one's stem cells to recover and rebuild the disease-ravaged body. This takes 5+ years, typically.
 

TikBitten
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 Posted: Fri Dec 19th, 2008 03:53
My Replies:

Q1: I will lookup the Wirostko photographs, thank you.

Q2. "Nobody has contemplated a flora outside the gut, except us...."

Not surprised but please know quasi-normal bowel and digestive system function appear to have restored -- and that after about 10+ years of dysfunction...

Q3. "The metagenome defines which body systems will fail, and in what order."

About this time last year I was in the ER for cardiac distress.  Breathing issues, cognitive function, musco-skeletal pain and an apparent myriad of hormonal issues prevailed.  Thoughts of checking out permanently within 6 months or so were not hard to imagine, or accept.  At this point in time I may be in a different place, thank you...

Q4. "The body is remarkably resilient. the human psyche (denial of a disease state) further adds to our stoicism."

Fought it off by denial and daily rigorous exercise for 15+ years through my late twenties and thirties but it started to get the best of me by about age 40 -- last 4 years were hell.

Q5. "There are no motile spirochetal pathogens which exist in living human beings. They only exist in dead tissue and not whole blood." 

What about bio-film colonies and persister cells?  Thought cyst form and spirochetal activity emerged there?  Just wondering to what extent has that has been confirmed in-vivo?

Q6. "Absolutely. It is usual to recover totally, for one's stem cells to recover and rebuild the disease-ravaged body. This takes 5+ years, typically."

Stem cell reconstruction - had no idea. Can't wait!!! Guess that gives a whole new meaning to being 'Born Again...'

Thank you for your concern and effort.:)

TB
 


Last edited on Fri Dec 19th, 2008 04:14 by TikBitten



____________________
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martysfolks
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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2008 04:46
Wow!  Read the post about the lady who ended up in renal failure and had to stop the Benicar.  Then I clicked on to the site in blue and read down all the way.  I have not listed myself as a professional, however, I have been a nurse for 40+ years and was fascinated by  your answers to questions posted that I have pondered in my head for quite a while.  Thank you so much for all that info.  I am more understanding now about the mechanics of MP.  I am getting ready to go to phase 3 and have lots of questions.  Will go to my regular post as I was between doctors and have not posted in a while.  Dolores P. Rosner.



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Hydrocordone 1/2tab prn pain
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2008 04:55
As the recent 'Kidney Intl' paper I cited in my West China Hospital seminar pointed out, "Renal Failure" is a condition which is associated with VDR activation.

At the moment "failure" is described entirely by misbehavior of a few metabolites, GFR particularly.  I think that Medicine will find it hard to cope with the concept that kidney function is so closely related to the immune system, and that "kidney failure" can reverse itself without any requirement for intervention or dialysis.
 

jlunn247
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 Posted: Sun Dec 28th, 2008 07:28
i feel like i am being held together with chewing gum and baling wire.
my connective tissue is the most infected i have been taught.
with the mp  i think i am preventing falling apart into a pile of cytokines.



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Bone disintegration,lungs,joint/muscle/stomach pain, diarrhea,incontinence. Weakness on my left side sweats,fatigue,neuropathy,headaches,mood swings,cognitive diss.

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