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The Common Cold is really Immunopathology?
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:    1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page  
 

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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 13:24

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"It might be hard to believe, but the "normal" virus infection might not be as "normal" as science has hitherto believed :):)

"Common Cold Symptoms Caused By Immune System -- Not The Cold Virus"
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081029101201.htm

That is just another reason that we keep telling people to always assume that what you are feeling is IP, unless suggested otherwise by Doc's work-up or bloodwork :)
 
 

Sunset
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 Posted: Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 18:18

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Very interesting article. Now when researchers finally concede that your "Vit D" research is indeed valid they will have the most important piece of the immune system figured out. And they will have the necessary tools available to effectively treat patients :D:D:D

Sunset



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expate
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 04:43

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In explaining part of the MP to those who will listen to me ;), I use this information as an  example, as in, "You know how when you get a cold, it isn't the virus that gives you a runny nose, etc.; it's your immune system's reaction to the virus that causes it."

Everyone seems to relate to that, so I thought it was common knowledge.  I guess this study is a more in depth confirmation that this is the case.

Odette



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Hypervitaminosis D 1,25D 52 pg/ml (3/08), 49 pg/ml (2/11), 25D 38 (3/08), 25D 34 (8/08), 25D 29 (10/08), 25D 14 (3/09), 25D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09) 25D=9 (1/27/10), 25D=9, D3 9, D2<4 (2/20/11): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09
lhebel
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 08:35

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I'll bet that is why I didn't have a cold for years prior to starting the MP when earlier in my life I had 3 per year or so. My immune system wasn't functioning!



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Persistent urinary tract infection, prostatitis. MP start 2008. Faraday cage 2/18.
Rico
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 08:41

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On the other hand, I was getting about 2 colds and one bad flu each year. I haven't had one since I started the MP.



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paulalbert
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 14:09

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http://mpkb.mp-dev.com/doku.php/home:protocol:immunopathology



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Diag CFS 6.03 / sympt since 9.02 / exercise, food intol, sleep prob / 1,25D: 16, 4.06; 1,25D:27, 25D:26 7.04; 1,25D:43, 25D:6 6.05; 1,25D:17, 25D:8 8.05; / MP: 7.04 / Ph. 3 / Bacteriality
Freddie Ash
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 15:34

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HI ALL

This is Fred in WV.  Thanks for all this info about a cold, but I would like to add to this to this discussion,  the fever blister.  I think it is caused by the TH1 diseases and the virus moves in after the sore comes out on the lips.  I have had a lot of lip IPs since I have been on the MP. 

I use to get fever blisters when I was in grade school just before it started.  I guess the stress for me having to go back to school after the summer vaction. Maybe some one can find a site that also shows this too.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis

Freddie



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Freddie: dx-sarc 2/82 lymph; skin, eyes, joints, esophagus, intestines, spleen, heart,lungs-25D-7; 125-D43
Rico
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 16:42

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Ah, I'd forgotten about cold sores. I used to get them frequently and they'd take a while to go away. They've decreased significantly since I've been on the MP. In fact, I don't really remember the last time I had one :)



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No diagnosis/some symptoms (more than I knew); wife with Sarc on MP; Olm 40mg q4-6h | 25D=22 (May 2014) | 25D=27 (Nov 2014)
Caitiegirl
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 Posted: Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 17:00

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My husband and one of my sons gets cold sores every autumn. They have even figured out that sun exposure seems to be the trigger. Things just seem to become clearer and clearer. Can't wait to see what 2009 will bring!
Mindy

Paul,
The link is amazing. Everything looks so great. Can't wait for all this to be fully operational.

Last edited on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 17:33 by Caitiegirl



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Caitlin(18) lyme, seizures, myoclonus, dystonia, digestive, chronic headache, mental fog: 10/23/07 25D 36 1,25D 58, 1/12/09/5.7, 1/18/08 25D 9.9 Cut sun/D 9/26/07 Benicar 10/25/07, NoIRs 10/29/07
carol
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 11:02

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The seemingly contradictory comments on incidence of viral illnesses by those on the MP has always puzzled me. Some people say they were sick all the time and now that they are on the MP, they never (or hardly ever) get a cold, etc. Others report just the opposite: they gleefully describe getting their first “normal” cold in years and attribute it to immune system recovery produced by the MP.

Anyone have additional insight on this phenomenon?

Carol



____________________
rheumatoid arthritis dx '96...started MP 8/11/04...initial D tests: 25-D=32; 1,25-D=65...10/07 entered Phase 5...Xodol daily, Celebrex as needed...last 25-D=7 (5/14)...Benicar 40mg/4 hour, no abx
Caitiegirl
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 11:21

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My family has one person on the protocol, three who have cut D and are waiting to start the protocol, and 2 who are happily ignorant and oblivious to it all. My husband is a diabetic and addicted to Vit D foods.

In the last year we have found that the 2 who are ingesting D have averaged a cold each quarter. My husband has had a constant sinus infection for the last 5 months and will see an ENT next week. Oldest son is relatively healthy but is also having at least one cold/sinus infection each 3-4 months.

My other 2 sons who have drastically cut D but not totally taken it out of their diet have been sick once this year. This is a drastic reduction for our family.

I have only been sick once, with pneumonia. I did not have a cold or sinus infection first. Caitie kept telling me I was herxing.

Caitie has had some runny nose IP and some short-lived symptoms but all seem to have been IP. None lasted more than a couple of days and came and went with the antibiotic dosage.

In the past we were one of those families that stayed sick all winter long. This may have been the healthiest Christmas for the kids and  I ever. But all those stubborn ones who won't give up D were seriously sick. Maybe someday they'll figure it out for themselves.
Mindy



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Caitlin(18) lyme, seizures, myoclonus, dystonia, digestive, chronic headache, mental fog: 10/23/07 25D 36 1,25D 58, 1/12/09/5.7, 1/18/08 25D 9.9 Cut sun/D 9/26/07 Benicar 10/25/07, NoIRs 10/29/07
carol
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 13:10

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The seemingly contradictory comments on incidence of viral illnesses by those on the MP has always puzzled me. Some people say they were sick all the time and now that they are on the MP, they never (or hardly ever) get a cold, etc. Others report just the opposite: they gleefully describe getting their first “normal” cold in years and attribute it to immune system recovery produced by the MP.

Anyone have additional insight on this phenomenon?

Carol



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rheumatoid arthritis dx '96...started MP 8/11/04...initial D tests: 25-D=32; 1,25-D=65...10/07 entered Phase 5...Xodol daily, Celebrex as needed...last 25-D=7 (5/14)...Benicar 40mg/4 hour, no abx
Guss Wilkinson
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 15:42

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One of my herx symptoms is a constantly runny nose (which varies in intensity), especially when I do anything physical.

But in terms of having a cold (as I used to get), I cannot remember the last one I had...must be years, and that is despite people dropping like flies around me.

Cheers

Guss



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Dx Sarc May 2002 Stage 2. Estimate Sarc since 1987. Lungs, Joints, Kidneys & Liver.(Started MP: Oct 2003 - stopped permanently June 2012) The MP doesn't seem to have worked for me.
jcwat101
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 20:24

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It may be more complicated than this, but perhaps one way of looking at it might be -- if you are very ill, you don't ever get colds (I was at this stage at one time), then if you improve to moderately ill, you get colds fairly often, and then when you are really well, you don't get them hardly at all (perhaps the immune system is so strong it wipes them out before they even multiply enough to produce any noticeable immune reaction).  And then it just depends on where you start when entering the MP, whether you get more or less colds. 

I think that the ultimate endpoint for us all when we get really well is to not get colds at all  :) (hope so, anyway)

Joyce Waterhouse

Last edited on Sun Jan 4th, 2009 20:28 by jcwat101



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carol
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 21:08

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Brilliant, Joyce!



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rheumatoid arthritis dx '96...started MP 8/11/04...initial D tests: 25-D=32; 1,25-D=65...10/07 entered Phase 5...Xodol daily, Celebrex as needed...last 25-D=7 (5/14)...Benicar 40mg/4 hour, no abx
Alayne
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2009 22:50

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Thanks for asking that Carol; I've been wondering the same thing for a while.  And thanks for the succinct and understandable answer Joyce!

I currently have a cold. My second one in a year. I did not catch colds for years pre-MP (however, I seemed to catch everything else). 

I'll admit that I've not exulted in my ability to catch colds again, but have wondered about the changed immune system response, as my cold of about 9 months ago was quite different than now.

The cold earlier this year hit me harder than those around me.  In contrast, this week's cold is lingering, but I only really felt lousy for a day.  My brother and father who've caught it are experiencing major symptoms and have been down for the count for over a week.

So I wonder if I'm heading into that upper echelon of wellness that Joyce speaks of. It's nice to think about, to be sure. :)

Cheers, Alayne



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CFS/FM/Lyme - Health challenged 35+yrs. NoIRs/Zinc oxide. 6/05:25D-34, 1,25D-69; 11/07:25D-8 1,25-37. 11/17/05-Ph1, 5/06-MPh2, 12/06-MPh2#2, 6/07-MPh2#3,1/08-Ph2, 4/08-Ph3. 4/09-10/09 weaned off abx. 2/12: 25D<14, 3:15-25D<7 1,25D-36
UshiAad
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 Posted: Mon Jan 5th, 2009 03:33

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For what it’s worth, my experience with the cold, for me it is one of THE symptoms to monitor my progress on the MP. Pre-MP and while on the MP could not get a normal cold or fever, although i felt like a balloon at times due to the viral (?)load. It felt like i got a cold but my body, ie immune system, was not able to respond. Like it was in a valley and couldn’t climb the mountain.
Since a couple of years can sneeze again and only recently i started to develop a runny nose and some mucus (first time in 16 years !).....and i feel so much better :)!



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Diagnosis ME 1993, D free diet and low light since 7/05, Benicar since 9/05; Benicar/Mino since 10/05; 25D 10/05: 6, 11/06: 17, 7/07: 29, 12/07: 25; 1,25D 10/05: 21 ?, Phase 2 since 12/05; Phase 3 since 6/06|
Afternoon Tea
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 Posted: Tue Jan 6th, 2009 15:33

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I understand the concept of failing to have an immune reaction to a cold thus being really sick, but wouldn't that result in dangerous illnesses?  Isn't that basically the problem for people with "boy in a bubble" type syndromes?  How can we be so sick that we just don't get a cold or flu yet not have any immediate repercussions?  I don't get that.

I'm just recovering from my first head cold in ages right on the heels of the first stomach flu I have had in ages.  My son had it at the same time and observed that this was the first time he ever remembered me being sick when he was.  He is 15.  I have had some minor cold symptoms from time to time but not enough to stick in his mind.  I don't think I have had any true stomach flu symptoms in a decade or more until now.  I agree with UshiAad about feeling like I can't run a solid fever or "climb a mountain."  Weird.

Another related question.  Why do some people have a break in their other symptoms when they are sick with a virus or cold whereas with others their regular symptoms get worse?  For me I had a break in joint pain while sick that was actually quite a treat.  How sad is that???

 



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Palindromic RA (Probably early classic RA)| Stopped Benicar and MP Nov 09| Orencia/Methotrexate/Minocycline/Prednisone
expate
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 Posted: Tue Jan 6th, 2009 19:32

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Well, I think all of these questions have a common question.  It's one I've asked, as an outsider to both medicine and science.  What is the disease pathway?  What makes us sick, both for accute infection and in autoimmune diseases? 

My point?  OK, so we have these slow growing CWD bacteria.  We're fine-ish for years.  Then we full blown get "a" disease.  Why?  Is it compromised immune system?  Well, not only.  I mean, I think, and I'm making this up here, but I think there must be some critical mass point when the die off that causes IP when your killing the bugs, comes in to play.  Like, I have such a huge bacterial load that just supporting their life/death cycle causes my symptoms and not my immune system's reaction.

I don't know if I'm making sense, but I think we need to distinguish between IP and disease and therefore understand what causes the symptoms of disease before we activate the immune system.

Or have I had too much wine? ;)

Odette



____________________
Hypervitaminosis D 1,25D 52 pg/ml (3/08), 49 pg/ml (2/11), 25D 38 (3/08), 25D 34 (8/08), 25D 29 (10/08), 25D 14 (3/09), 25D 15: D3=15, D2<4 (6/09) 25D=9 (1/27/10), 25D=9, D3 9, D2<4 (2/20/11): all ng/ml, started Ph1 7/17/08, Ph2 11/4/08, Ph3 2/18/09
jcwat101
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 Posted: Tue Jan 6th, 2009 19:51

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As to Afternoon Tea's question, I would mention what a retired cold expert I know told me.  He said the most common cause of colds, the rhinovirus doesn't damage epithilial cells -- so it isn't really harming the body's cells.
Another interesting thing he told me was that 25% of colds are asymptomatic.  Some people can clear a cold virus without getting any symptoms -- they will find the person is shedding the virus etc... and they will have no symptoms at all. 

I suspect that the imbalance in the immune response caused by the colds is what can lead to complications that arise from colds.


So, just because one doesn't get symptoms of a cold, doesn't mean one doesn't clear the virus.  I also found a study that showed that people who have Parkinson's Disease almost never have colds and even in the years before they get Parkinson's Disease, they don't tend to have colds.

Anyway, I think it is more complex most likely than what I have stated in my posts, but it seems that whether or not one gets colds is not a simple linear reflection of one's state of health.

I don't really understand expate's question, so will leave it with the above statement and suggest we not get too worried about this issue.

Joyce Waterhouse

Last edited on Tue Jan 6th, 2009 20:01 by jcwat101



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20 yrs with CFS/FM/Lyme/IBS, food sensitivities; 1,25D/25D 8/04:64/11 http://SynergyHN.wordpress.com

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