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The Common Cold is really Immunopathology?
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page  
 

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MarkN
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 Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 20:48

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I discovered that I can bypass a cold by taking a Benicar at any moment I feel a tickle coming on, or at least every 4 hours, whichever comes first. I still feel tired and foggy (immune system working) but avoid all the sore throat and snot side of things.



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kenc
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 Posted: Sun Feb 15th, 2009 22:42

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I wouldn't be too quick to jump to the conclusion that you are avoiding a cold by taking SL Benicar.

1) How do you know that the cold symptoms you are getting are a sign of an impending cold? Perhaps, these are from some kind of immunopathology induced from the protocol.

2) How do you know there is a cause and effect. When I used SL Benicar to get rid of neurological symptoms, I purposely delayed the SL Benicar to ensure there was a cause and effect relationship. Delaying the SL Benicar delayed the remission of symptoms. Remission of symptoms took only a minute or two after taking the Benicar. I developed confidence in this cause and effect relationship.

Perhaps it would be a good test to take Benicar for every other onset of cold symptoms. This should help to determine the correct conclusion.

It would sure be wonderful if we could knock out a cold simply by taking Benicar. I suspect there will be lots of interesting effects discovered from re-activating the innate immune system with Benicar.



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MarkN
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 Posted: Mon Feb 16th, 2009 10:30

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I think it does work, because I tried it when family members were sick, so I know it was a germ and not just IP. It is possible I wouldn't have gotten sick anyway. I have been on the MP for over 2 years. But normally I catch everything. It seems to help within 15 minutes, at least in a palliative way, but only for a tickle, not so much if you already have a sore throat.



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Limburg
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 Posted: Wed Mar 18th, 2009 00:38

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Since I have MS,I havent't had a cold and/or fever.

The first thing happening when on MP was a terrible headache,followed by a "cold" with fever! (I'm only 2 months on MP now)

After 4 weeks I'm still coughing a lot,it seems as if my body wants to get rid of something in my lungs :D (an X-ray of the thorax was made before and it looked clean,no strange noises in my lungs with stethoscope listening)

Other things are happening also,but this is the most significant so far.

I could believe something's woked up in there:D

 

Annemarie



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eClaire
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 Posted: Sat Apr 18th, 2009 14:28

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I've just started reading this interesting thread and I think what is happening (generally) is how Bane explains it, and I also wonder about KFaucher's comment / question.  I wonder about the experience of folk on the MP.  Depending on where you might fall on Bane's continuum (if we applied a number to each point on the continuum) how might your response be to the protocol?

For example, I know folk who felt worse but then turned around at a much faster pace than me (2 1/3 years in and I'm not turning the corner yet; however, the light I see at the end of the tunnel is no longer based on faith alone).  I never had a cold, rarely had a virus (many years in between), could have had sufficient IP on Benicar alone, had out of control IP initially, and am back to Mino alone (waiting for my high kidney labs to clear). 

I'm thinking that we might see reactions to the MP that track where people would be on Bane's continuum.

At any rate, it would be interesting to know as it might be somewhat predictive of the MP experience.

Claire



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Dogster
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 Posted: Mon Apr 20th, 2009 13:34

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Doesnt work for me.  AS i got sicker and more chronic, the bugs  became more frequent, lasted longer and also got more violent (with a greater of number symptoms showing up), --  so #1 and #2 and #3 dont hold up but #4 and #5 might . . .            Just generally doesnt fit though . . .



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 Posted: Sat Jun 6th, 2009 21:36

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I just reviewed this thread because my husband Phil, who is on the MP prophylactically, has a cold that just won’t go away.  

This discussion reminded me of something Dr Blaney brought up in my consultation with him last February:  the general adaptive syndrome.    

Hans Selye pioneered the concept of the general adaptive syndrome in the 1980’s and Dr Blaney finds the model useful to describe how the immune system responds to the stress of infection by CWD bacteria, in its attempt to maintain homeostasis.  As bacteria are killed, infected cells undergo apoptosis.  This loss of cells and the release of cytokines produce immunopathology, which can be considered the actual “stressors”.

According to the general adaptive syndrome model, in the initial stages of disease, the acute phase, the body responds with symptoms that come and go.  When the body enters the adaptive phase, no symptoms are evident.  This is followed by the degenerative stage, during which it is all downhill and the body is overwhelmed by disease. (I now have the book by Selye, “The Stress of Life”, and hope I understand this concept better after I review the text.)

Carol



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 Posted: Mon Jun 8th, 2009 11:01

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Carol you just described my descent into totally disability to the T.  I watched over the years as my body adapted to various things--symptoms come and symptoms go--, including in the years before total disability where life-long allergies and serious reactions to chemicals just disappeared.  Then I crashed totally and could feel my life slip slip slipping away.  Now my health and life is returning to me.  Life is good.  Love life back.  And thank God for Trevor Marshall and everyone at this site for helping me recover what was being lost (and have something one day that I have never known: good health).:)



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 Posted: Sun Jan 16th, 2011 08:02

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I know this thread is old but I have been reading it with interest. I hope some people can chime in with their comments or directions if there is a more appropriate place for this question/theory. Or maybe it has already been answered?

I would say I am in category 2 right now. I still get colds but don’t mount a very aggressive response and they tend to drag on for weeks.

What I wanted to know is whether the colds/flu you come down with interfere with your ability to make progress on the MP? It would seem logical that when immo-compromised, you only have so much immune activity to go around. When you come down with a lousy cold, does it “slow down” your progress on the MP?? If so, would it not be better to avoid exposure from infected people when and where possible? Or, does it not matter due to the MP working in a completely separate immune pathway then for viruses etc.?? (Innate v. adaptive etc.)

Thanks,

BC
:)



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 Posted: Sun Jan 16th, 2011 18:09

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Are you sure they are colds? Perhaps it is IP? I always had a sore throat, runny nose and sneezed frequently in early stages of MP and I believe it was IP.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 17th, 2011 00:06

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I too have had the same "cold" like sxs early on in the MP.  And I've been having some the past few nights as well.  They seem like warning signs of a cold, but then just go away within an hour or so, never to develop into anything.  I am also inclined to believe they are just IP.



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 Posted: Mon Jan 17th, 2011 14:29

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Ultimately there's no need to figure out whether symptoms are immunopathology provoked by the MP or immunopathology in response to a new virus invasion, or a combination of both.  Symptoms are symptoms, and our main task is to choose our dosing in response to the level of of total symptoms.

All best,
Dody



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 Posted: Mon Jan 17th, 2011 21:10

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In another post, Prof T mentioned "we shouldn't get the flu" so I suspect that colds and such are indeed IP.

Some IP feels suspiciously like light flu or a cold when family and friends aren't infected and vice versa, when they are sick I am not.



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 Posted: Fri Jun 17th, 2011 05:38

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Hi all !

I just ran into a paper that says it is the first to actually prove (in a mouse model) that the common cold is indeed immunopathology.

See:
- http://tinyurl.com/3zrb8z9

(- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110616081719.htm)

"In our model, cold-induced asthma flare-ups were caused by the body's immune response to the virus, not the virus itself. Chemicals produced by the immune system inflame cells and tissues, causing asthma symptoms such as cough and wheeze,"

I know the vitamin D zealots are taking humongous amounts of vit. D and proclaim that that helps against them getting colds ...  they should read this paper. Again and again and again ...

and think about what these viruses are now doing in their bodies ...  unhindered ...

Best to all, Frans

PS Thanks to cBay and Odette in helping me understand how to make url's work in firefox



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 Posted: Fri Jun 17th, 2011 17:17

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Soooo, for those supplementing with vitamin D their immune system is suppressed by the D reducing the viral symptoms of a cold giving the false impression that D supplementation is preventing colds. 

I know I didn't have cold symptoms during the 10 years leading up to my sarc diagnosis.  Now I get 2 or 3 colds a year depending on how much time I spend with grandchildren :)

Gene



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 Posted: Fri Jun 17th, 2011 17:28

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Beyond the symptom-suppression caused by "vitamin" D supplementation, I suspect that all the other symptom-suppression pushed by Big OTC Pharma probably robs folks of the immunopathology needed to do a thorough job of defeating and disposing of cold viruses.  Pass the water and tissues and hold the Nyquil please. 



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 Posted: Sat Jun 18th, 2011 06:03

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Gene,

If you quit  eating grains (including corn & soy) and pasteurized dairy, I'll bet your colds will cease, and you can play to your heart's content with your grandchildren!:D




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 Posted: Sun Jun 19th, 2011 22:07

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Hi Gary,

How so?  I don’t think there is any way to avoid being infected with a contagious cold virus when exposed.  A healthy innate immune system will mount a defense resulting in the cold symptoms.  However, the adaptive immune system will “remember” those specific viral antigens it has been previously exposed to and quickly eliminate them.  This is the idea behind vaccination.

The problem with the common cold is that there are some 200+ different viral genomes that are constantly mutating forming new strains beyond recognition of the adaptive immune system.  It is worrisome to think about these viral infections going unchecked by a suppressed immune system. 

Gene



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 Posted: Mon Jun 20th, 2011 05:32

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Gene,

Yes, you will still "catch" viruses, but the symptoms will be so slight that you will hardly notice them, like a few sneezes here and there or a little extra mucous in sinuses or lungs, but even those will be gone in 3 days or less. And you will eventually get to a point where you will notice hardly any symptoms at all.

That's because your adaptive immune system, no longer in constant battle with foreign food antigens (grains/dairy), will be able to robustly and efficiently dispatch the viral invaders like a smooth, well-oiled piece of machinery no longer burdened with waste and by-products of maladaptive foods clogging up the gears.

The lymph system, in particular, is where a lot of foreign debris gets stored, and when the virus comes along, the body takes that opportunity to clear the stored garbage as it clears the viral invaders, ergo, copious mucous production in the upper respiratory area and a diminution of vital energy.

A readable little book that contrasts the the "cellular theory" of Antoine Béchamp (and others who have followed after him such as Enderlein, Page, Reich and Naessens) with the "germ theory" of Pasteur is The Curse of Louis Pasteur by Nancy Appleton. Béchamp stated that microbes naturally exist in the body and that it is the body's internal environment, in response to various "forces," that fosters the development of disease from within.

Béchamp, whose work was disparaged by the more PR-adept self-promoting Pasteur, viewed microbes (which he called "microzymas') as pleomorphic, i.e., changing and taking on multiple forms during a single life cycle, and causing disease only when the health of the host deteriorates.  The parallels with the Marshall Pathogenesis are rather intriguing IMO! :)



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edj2001
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 Posted: Mon Jun 20th, 2011 07:51

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Hi Gary,

Or, the other hypothesis is that your immune system is being compromised and you don’t notice the cold symptoms as a result.

As I understand it, it takes several days before adaptive immunity can form a defense against a new pathogen.  In the mean time, a healthy innate immune system is responding with the cellular chemicals that cause the cold symptoms.  Seems this is unavoidable. 

Gene



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