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The Antibodies Congress in Beijing, May 2009
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3   
 

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eClaire
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 Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 11:23

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I always wonder if Benicar is palliating my symptoms, why then is my exhaustion greater the more Benicar I take? Exhaustion is a symptom. Logically, I'd assume the exhaustion would be lessened. Claire



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gart
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 Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 11:32

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Thank You Dr.Marshall.

I hope palliative effect  at Q4 40mg predominate the activating of the innate immune system, because if it is not, how I can settle my IP if I will continue take Benicar and quaifenesin doesn't make much difference so fare.

Gene



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MP Feb'08-May2012 (break from March 2012 | Lyme | burning neuropathy entire body, muscle/joint pain,TMJ,blurring vision,noise sensitivity | 125D=51, 25D=40, April'11 Oct 2012-12.8ng/ml,Jan 2013-19ng/ml1.25D-73,JUl'13-1 Jul 2015 25D 29.2ng/ml
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 11:47

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Claire,
The extra palliation and organ protection at high doses is most noticeable once you get well along the path to recovery, and is the primary effect in Stage 5 (when immune activation effect is no longer a factor, as the body is stimulating the VDR by itself).

Gene,
Working out how to manage IP is indeed my number 1 priority right now. We have very few tools which work reliably. Sorry you are having trouble with that. My ultimate goal is to make sure that people are not allowed to get as sick as most of our current members are, but unfortunately, at this point we will just have to struggle with the hand fate has dealt us.
 

Rico
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 Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 12:10

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The extra palliation and organ protection at high doses is most noticeable once you get well along the path to recovery


I can confirm that - not personally, but my wife had a difficult time with Benicar q6h initially and would be worse with q4h.  Over time, she's found that q4h does alleviate IP a bit now. Even though she's still struggling, I guess it means she's well along the path to recovery, which is encouraging.



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scooker48
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 Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 14:26

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Dr. Marshall and the entire team of ARF,

CONGRATULATIONS on this milestone, and I am cheering you on.

The agreement at West China Hospital will use a population of Chinese who have not been subjected to fortified "Vitamin D" in their diets, as has the population of the USA, UK, Western Europe, Australia, etc.  Correct?  If that is the case, will the results be helpful in establishing fortified Vitamin D as upsetting the "steady state" of the human body?

One of your greatest fans,

Sherry



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D25, Total: 12 measured 11/3/15 Started MP=01/04/05 Diagnosis: Sarc 12/04; "cat scratch disease" or necrotizing graunulomas 10/88; Raynaud's (diagnosed 1980?)
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Jul 7th, 2009 16:35

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Sherry,
The Chinese diet contains a lot of fish, mushrooms and egg. I am holding back any guesses about their Vit D status until the data starts to come in from the study cohort. I am sure you understand :) :)
 
UK, Western Europe, and Australia, all to varying degrees, have been exposed to the "more Vitamin D is good" pragma for some time. Sunbathing binges are common amongst their youth (Scandinavians promote Egypt as a venue for summer holidays, for example). Multivitamins are commonplace throughout those regions, and have been for decades. So I don't want to generalize until I see hard data :)
 

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 Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 05:50

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Trevor,

I understand a press release is on the way.

I was wondering what will be studied by West China Hospital. Will they look at some of the things I sum up below?

I will sum up some ideas I have:

- will they biopsy the vertabraes that are fused together, to look for bacterial rRNA in that tissue?

- will they assess bacterial load before and during the study, in the blood, but perhaps also tissue specific?

- will they be looking at transcriptional activity, eg of VDR itself but also of other genes we now know are transcribed by VDR ?  This also in blood or tissues.


Will they be doing more general studies? I mean studies like:

-  letting olmesartan loose on cells in vitro to measure rate of upregulation of VDR

- perhaps look for exactly which receptor is responsible for transcribing VDR, besides the VDR itself? You mentioned the Estrogen receptor.

- from there on perhaps look which proteins are responsible for that and do genome wide screens for look-alike bacterial or viral proteins to see if there are more bacteria or viruses that can knock out the VDR ?

- perhaps do the same to find analogs of capnine ?

Best, Frans

Last edited on Mon Jul 20th, 2009 05:54 by Frans



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 10:51

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We will put those on the list of things for the students at Sichuan University to be looking at :)

WCH has long-standing expertise in Ankylosing Spondylitis, and they have tests available to measure osteoclastic action and osteoblastic action, for example. So I am sure they are going to be able to track the cohort's progress pretty well.

They also have local support groups in the outlying regions who will be providing counselling and support-meetings to try and emulate the community spirit we formed here on the study site.

WCH is the Cochrane collaborator for Chinese evidence based medicine. They know exactly what they are doing. And their aim is to cure their patients. They gain nothing from having patients coming back to their out-patient surgeries year after year :)
 
With 4600 beds and 2.5 million outpatients a year WCH is the biggest clinical center in the world...


ps: the press release will be going out on Eureka Alert tomorrow :)
 

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 Posted: Mon Jul 20th, 2009 12:18

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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: We will put those on the list of things for the students at Sichuan University to be looking at :)


Sounds like a plan :)    If they need any help ...  ;)

they have tests available to measure osteoclastic action and osteoblastic action, for example
That´s great. That way they can (indirectly) measure that lowering vitamin D actually leads to better bones :)   Who would have thought that ...

WCH is the Cochrane collaborator for Chinese evidence based medicine. They know exactly what they are doing
If cochrane starts 'advertising' (or at least advocating) the MP in a couple of years ...   wow ...

ps: the press release will be going out on Eureka Alert tomorrow :)
 


Can't wait :)

Some appropriate words, especially today:

It's a small step for man, ....  mankind     :cool:

Frans

Last edited on Mon Jul 20th, 2009 12:18 by Frans



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bealunn
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 Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 03:11

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Bravo Trevor Marshall

Press Release



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eClaire
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 Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 08:52

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I'm printing this press release to give to my new doctor who is like a colt in the first 10 minutes of life when it comes to the MP. As we know, it is difficult to establish credibility with new doctors. Yay! Yay! Yay! Just maybe she'll believe that I know something of which I speak. Claire



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 Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 11:13

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When I first read the anouncement, it brought tears to my eyes.

Biggest points to take to our docs:

- WCH, their scientists and Cochrane have implicitly gathered in MP's corner

- this should convince doc that MP's view of vit. D cannot be ALL wrong ... :)

- the same goes for (l-form/CWD/hard to culture) bacteria

- and perhaps even long term use of pulsed antibiotics  :)

- not to forget the agonistic properties of olmesartan in the VDR

This, together with all those scientist that have PEER reviewed Trevor's, Amy's, Paul's, cpt Perez's, Greg Blaney's and Joyce's papers in internationally acclaimed journals, makes a hell of a convincing crowd that (new) docs should really, really, try hard to believe/trust ...

Congrats to all that have done their utmost (which is not always easy when doing MP) to get us all here.

Cheers and thanks !

Frans

Last edited on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 15:38 by Frans



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 11:50

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Claire,
Every member should print this release out and take it to their Doctors. It is short enough for them to read, and we tried to use easily-understood language. Frans has summarized the take-home-points quite well:):)

Freddie Ash
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 Posted: Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 12:15

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HI ALL

This is Fred in WV.  I will be taking copies to all my doctors, 5 of them.

Thank you Dr Marshall for all you effert that you have put into all this to make it come true.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis

Freddie



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 Posted: Thu Aug 27th, 2009 09:49

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Trevor,

I was wondering if the trials in Bejing have already started ?

Another thing I wanted to ask is how exactly they are going to implement the MP? Expecially concerning diet low on D, NOIR glasses, avoiding sunlight etc. ?

TIA, Frans



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 Posted: Thu Aug 27th, 2009 10:19

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Frans,
We are still working on all the details :) I will answer your questions in a week or three :)
 

k
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 Posted: Tue Dec 15th, 2009 15:59

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Just wondering if there's any update on the China study?  I know these things take a lot of time, but interested to know any progress.

regards, k



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Dec 15th, 2009 16:35

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K,
When I designed the study we commenced in 2002, first at the SarcInfo.com site, and later here at MarshallProtocol.com, I used all of my experience in medical research and institutional politics to set up an environment where positive change can occur virtually overnight. This environment here is absolutely unique.

Before any University, or other institutional bureaucracy, can start to investigate an intervention, such as the MP, a complicated formal plan must be drawn up. This plan must be approved by an ethics committee, the members of which usually have no idea what they are holding in their hands. Then it has to be approved by departmental committees, ensuring that the physicians are trained properly, and know what they are doing. To top that all off, even Murdoch University's ethics committee is now demanding that they also agree to the formal plan.

Even with all the advantages we enjoy with our collaboration in China, it will be five years before the results of this study are published in a major journal. That is my best guess. Such is the way things happen in mainstream medicine these days.

Will the results of the trial even be relevant in five years? Will acceptance of the science by then have made obvious the peril of not making the MP widely available? I think the scientific progress will prevail, actually. But we can't rely on that. We need to follow both the conventional "evidence based" approach as well as the "pure science" approach.

But nothing is going to happen overnight. We have begun a process at WCH will will eventually result in publication of "evidence based" study results. Meanwhile, our efforts here will continue to help those who can't afford to wait, and our efforts on the scientific front will continue apace.

I hope that explanation helps.

..trevor..

k
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 Posted: Tue Dec 15th, 2009 16:40

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Thank you Dr Marshall.  No, I certainly wasn't expecting or asking after results of the study.  I was simply asking to see if things were still trickling along through the many various things that you have described (bureaucracy et al).  Good to know they are progressing, even if it at the 'necessary' glacial pace.

Thanks.

regards, k



____________________
CFS menorrhagia & dysmenorrhoea anxiety depression paxil 600mg calcium daily Ph1.Oct07 Ph2.Feb08 Ph3.Sept08 BeniOnly.Aug09 MinoRestart.Dec09 25D=50(Jul07)23(Oct07)13.2(Jan08)12.8(Oct08)10(Sept09)12.8(Jun10)12.4(May11)8.3(Apr12) 4.4(Jun13) <4(Nov14)

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