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FDA investigating the safety of Benicar
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  ...  Next Page Last Page  
 

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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Jun 28th, 2010 16:59

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Of course a pharmacist would be fully up-to-date with his knowledge of the drug, and how it decays, and its propensity to do so.


Not being critical of you Claire, just trying to point out that authority figures are not necessarily the ones to ask for specialized information...

eClaire
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 Posted: Mon Jun 28th, 2010 17:12

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So ... are what you saying is that you think refrigeration is better than a cool dry place?



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Jun 28th, 2010 17:33

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As long as you keep them in a tightly sealed bag(s), and make sure there is no condensation in the refrigerator compartment you are using (I use the bottom 'crisper'), then drugs and LiION rechargable batteries will last longer there...

baypilot
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 Posted: Mon Jun 28th, 2010 22:06

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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: Shelf life of Olmesartan Medoxomil is not very good (a year or so). It is a very unstable molecule. I think there were some papers investigating this issue, maybe one of the members can help you track them down.


 

hi mr. marshall


I use hipersar(other brand name of olmesartan)exp date 9.12 .long enough to store.



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Joyful
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 02:13

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Dear positiveminds, I was not criticizing your posting on this topic at all. Concerns need to be voiced so they can be addressed. No problem there. Especially because there are some, as you pointed out, that have cast the foundation in a pretty negative light. They are sadly wrong on many important points, but it can get you doubting if you don't have input from any other source.

Thank you Tom for contributing your 'insider' perspective! That is pretty much the general idea I had from reading the articles referenced at the top of the thread, but it's always nice to get the level of reassurance your comments bring.

Titta, thank you for affirming what I know to be true. These forums are the meeting place for an international group of intelligent, stubborn, never-say-die people who will find a way to make the MP science work in the face of any obstacle thrown in our path!

Sherry, I'm so glad you posted the link to the discussion where the questions were raised and discussed at length (http://bacteriality.com/2010/06/01/symbiosis). Quite a refreshing interchange of comments. :)

So, now...

Onto the mundane topic of preserving medications for long periods, I think I recall Alayne used a "Food Saver" to vacuum seal her medications before refrigeration. I've got one of those devices, but it's buried in the garage... so ...

I usually put the pills into a zip-lock plastic bag (maybe with a silica gel pack). I seal the bag, place it in the bottle (for identification), close the bottle, and then place the bottle inside two more layers of zip-lock plastic bags. It seems to keep the pills dry.



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paulalbert
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 05:48

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My working theory for the (still unpublished) work out of the ROADMAP and ORIENT cohorts is that the small increase in bad outcomes are the results of olmesartan breaking up arterial plaque.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19124398

As I read when researching the KB's now somewhat polished cardiovascular disease article, breaking up plaque (even though it sounds healthy and may be good in the long-term) can cause pieces to flick off, travel through the arteries, and become lodged in tiny passageways, leading to adverse events in the short-term such as stroke.
http://mpkb.org/home/diseases/cardiovascular

One of the papers the above KB article cites is on how macrophages upset plaque stability:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15337206

Until reading the above paper, I didn't think anyone would want stable plaque.

For patients intent upon recovering atherosclerosis, I don't know any way around it. Whatever treatment ends up clearing plaque is going to run into this problem, IMO – whether it's olmesartan or green cheese.

Paul



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Phillyguy
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 05:56

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Paul,

Minocycline is thought to minimize the effects of stroke and, in fact, is actually being used experimentally immediately post stroke to mitigate long term sequelae.

Perhaps it is important that people with existing cardiovascular disease make an effort to maintain some kind of baseline dose of mino?

paulalbert
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 06:01

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Phillyguy,

Thanks for sharing. I wonder if the dose used in the trial your referred to is immunosuppressive, and that would explain why it shows some therapeutic promise.

Paul



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eClaire
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 06:16

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This may be totally ignorant (since I know nothing of the science), but it seems to me that a working immune system would create plaque by virtue of killing off bacteria.  I may be wrong, but if the plaque on teeth, which is linked to heart health, is related to the plaque in arteries, then I did not develop plaque until I went on the MP, as I virtually had NO plaque on my teeth, which to me has become a sign of a poorly functioning immune system (not that I was so healthy I didn't have any, though that might be the possibility for "healthy" individuals).  (I didn't even need to get my teeth cleaned every 10 or 12 years when I did.) 

All this says to me, is that people need intervention earlier and perhaps plaque on teeth is yet another sign (or perhaps none at all with other Th1) symptom to indicate that intervention is needed, and then, as Paul says, risk has to be taken into account as the plaque breaks up.

Claire

Last edited on Tue Jun 29th, 2010 06:17 by eClaire



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MarkN
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 10:08

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eClaire,

I don't know about plaque in arteries, but plaque on teeth is a biofilm created by the bacteria. I think it could increase on the MP as the bacteria are trying to protect themselves from the ABX. On the other hand, if you are not on the MP and have a lot of plaque biofilm on your teeth, that would indicate you probably have a lot of bugs all over, and have poor heart health.


@paul albert, well said



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eClaire
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 11:36

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Thanks for the explanation.  Result is nearly the same (whether die off or biofilms).  The MP has the bacteria on the run!  :D  As for me, no plaque prior to the MP and so much plaque after that at times I had to scrape my own teeth four times in a day.  That has slowed down of course, but whenever my IP picks up, I still notice an increase in plaque on my teeth.  This also happened for a brief time in my life (about 8 months) when my immune system kicked into gear.  I thought I was getting worse, but it was my immune system making me better.  I had some plaque then, not anything like the MP though.

I would venture to guess that even without the plaque on my teeth I had poor heart health, particularly given the symptoms pre-MP and IP after starting the MP.

Slap me if someone has to explain this to me again!:shock:

Last edited on Tue Jun 29th, 2010 11:36 by eClaire



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minski2
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 12:06

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Hi Claire....don't want to confuse the issue,  but my experience with plaque is just the opposite.  No plaque all my life till my health (assuming immune system) started failing.  Then almost immediately after starting MP no more plaque.  Yeh!!!



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scooker48
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 13:16

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If I may chime in, the reason for the difference is the almost infinite variety of populations of bacteria, fungi and virus organisms different people are carrying within and on the skin.

The common theme is you both noticed a change in dental plaque once starting the MP, correct?

I myself had black stuff sticking to my teeth while taking the abx.  Ugh. 

Sherry



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eClaire
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 16:35

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Yes, you are right many times we seem to be a pile of opposites here and it is no doubt due to our specific microbiota and what it is doing to us.  I've seen a lot of people report lots of problems with plaque pre-MP, but I must not be alone in my experience.  :cool:



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Sallie Q
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 Posted: Tue Jun 29th, 2010 16:41

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at 18 months on MP some of my teeth feel clean and others feel microbe-filmed
judging by my erratic brain function it is like that between the headphones also

PS I learned to keep Olmesartan carefully wrapped and refrigerated during my first summer, when some of the tablets tasted 'off' particularly noticed since I would keep a spare sheet everywhere including in glovebox (do not do that anymore! our winter resembles the summers some of you have)



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positiveminds
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 Posted: Wed Jun 30th, 2010 03:53

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Would a small plastic airtight container put inside of the crisper be sufficient to prolong drugs in the fridge? There are plenty of those at the supermarket.



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 Posted: Wed Jun 30th, 2010 04:22

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HI ALL

This is Fred in WV.  My 2 cents worth on how long the Benicare will be good is more than 1 year.  The reason is I have some in the sample bottles (but well sealed with foil on top) that has an exp date of Sept 2012.  I am not sure is these were the ones the doctor gave me a few days ago or not but that would be close to a 1 - 1/2 years looks to me like.

Right now is the time of year that I have my MP doctor call Medco and get the ok for the 3 pills they have been paying for, for the last 3 years.  I saw the doctor last week and the nurse was to take care of this for me, but when I tried to order yesterday I had problems.  I called and the man took my order with no problem.  I have been paying $84 for 270 pills and I ask how much it would be today (it use to raise every so often) and the man told me no charge today.  A little while late the phone rang and it was a recording from Medco saying they could not fill that order and they were sending me a letter to tell me why.

I do not know if it is because they do not want to pay for it, my doctor did not call to get the ok like he said he would, or it could be all the stuff that is going on with the ARBs right now.  I will have to wait and see what the letter says and move from there.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie



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jrfoutin
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 Posted: Wed Jun 30th, 2010 18:45

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Back to FDA, Benicar and Arteries subject a bit here.

Take a gander at wikipedia picture of atheroma and enjoy reading some about errant macrophage involvement (sigh... hints seem to be mounting, somebody at the FDA is bound to get it eventually... maybe????).

Course, one must always take wikipedia content with a grain of salt, but that picture sooo helps me want to stop errant macrophage problems like none other.

Any study with Benicar at dose levels lower than what the MP recommends just reminds me of my first experience with advanced disease and olmesartan at non-MP "typical" dose. It's enough to set off fireworks.

I'm actually surprised at study data, not that olmesartan can set off the fireworks but that there weren't --more-- serious outcomes. Maybe, it seems even at hypertensive levels Benicar might still be preventing the worst outcomes.

I vote for cleaning up errant macrophages the safest way possible. More olmesartan the MP way, please.

Best to all--Janet

.....

Later edit: I have noted a lot of plaque changes during the time I was first dx with Sarc and then when I have been on the MP. One of the most recent changes I was looking at recently was teeth and tongue. Tongue has lost a coat and teeth are not growing plaque so much.

After looking at the artery on Wikipedia, I'm pretty glad about plaque reduction at present and hoping arteries and other places like calcified lymph nodes (also an errant macrophage problem) eventually clear up. Yup, I know, fibriotic stuff takes time.

Last edited on Thu Jul 1st, 2010 11:41 by jrfoutin



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Freddie Ash
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 Posted: Thu Jul 1st, 2010 05:01

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HI ALL

This is Fred in WV.  I think that the main problem that is happening is that the Benicar is much more than just a B/P pill and the doctors are not aware of this.  So I think it can be dangerous to use with out the MP knowledge.  Benicar starts the immune system working and doctor in general are getting problems and blameing the Benicar for the problems.

I say all of this because when I first started the Benicar my family doctor told me he gave Benicar to a patient and had to send them for dialysis because he said it caused the kidneys to fail.  My doctor even told me I was going to be there if my kidneys keep going the way they were going.  He said I was just 2 months form being there.  I told him no I wasn't because I was taking the Benicar at the correct dose to prevent that from happening.  And I did prove him wrong becuse my BUN went up to 109 then droped to about 40, CREATININE went up to 3.9 then fell to 1.7 over time.

So once again I think some of the problems is not the Benicar but the doctors knowledge of how it should be used.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie



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baypilot
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 Posted: Sat Jul 3rd, 2010 05:58

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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote:

I have just arrived in Maryland, ready for the presentation I will be giving at the FDA on Tuesday. Amy is joining me here tomorrow.

The video should be on YouTube by the weekend...

..Trevor..


mr marshall

what about presentation.did u give it?



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