The Marshall Protocol Study Site Home

Search
   
Members

Calendar

Help

Home
Search by username
   Not logged in - Login | Register 
The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > Antibiotic resistant bacteria have existed for thousands of years


Antibiotic resistant bacteria have existed for thousands of years
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
 

New Topic

Reply

Print
AuthorPost
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15742
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Sep 1st, 2011 11:15

Quote

Reply
There is a press release at:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-08/mu-rta082511.php

and a paper at Nature:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10388.html

describing a study which carefully dug ancient 30,000 yo Permafrost sediments out of the Canadian Northwest and sequenced the bacterial DNA found in it.

From my perspective, it is not surprising that antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria predated human discovery of antibiotics. Recall that Penicillin came from a mold, tetracycline from a strep mutant, as did Demeclocycline, while Vancomycin came from Amycolatopsis orientalis.

I have read the fulltext, and it doesn't add a lot to what is in the abstract and the Press Release. But it is interesting to observe that these researchers seemed to be unable to fully grasp man's recent introduction to antibiotics :( It is another can't see the 'forest for the trees' problem, I think.

Even though we now  realize that antibiotics are far less important than Olmesartan for inducing recovery from chronic disease, many still see the MP as "an antibiotic therapy'. I think it is going to take Mankind a long time to move away from the "superdrug" concepts, and towards a better understanding of the human body.

..Trevor..
 

seanlane
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 19th, 2009
Location: Memphis, Tennessee USA
Posts: 598
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Sep 1st, 2011 19:56

Quote

Reply
I don't know the exact mechanics of it, but me and most everyone else who is on the MP don't succumb to infection,particularly respiratory,like they did before treatment.
This is amazing just in itself, and I sometimes contemplate how recovering MPer's would fare in the event of some kind of epidemic event related to antibiotic resistant bacteria.

There are recent reports of MSRA being on the rise~

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/01/health/child-mrsa-infections/index.html?hpt=hp_c2



____________________
bipolar CFS neuropathy arrhythmia food sensitivities psoriasis MCS guillain-barre tinnitus 125D58 Ph1Jul/08 Ph2Oct/08 25D=17.8 Sept/08 25D=11.8 Jul/09 Ph3 Sept/09
Lyme positive Sept 2014
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15742
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Sep 1st, 2011 20:26

Quote

Reply
You want to contemplate what would happen if our population had slowly degrading innate immune systems, as the microbiota begin to become dominant (while folk get older).

Does this explain why MRSA infects some people, and not others? And why diabetics, and others who were aged, or already ill, suffered worse from SARS?

What does this tell you about whether children are facing an increasing or decreasing microbial load these days?

:)
 

Russ
inactive member
 

Joined: Fri Mar 24th, 2006
Location: Hartford, Connecticut USA
Posts: 812
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Sep 1st, 2011 20:35

Quote

Reply
If bacteria are capable of developing resistance to antimicrobial substances produced by mold and by other bacteria does it follow that they are also capable of developing resistance to the antimicrobial substances that the human immune system produces?  Is there something about the antimicrobials produced by the human immune system that make it more difficult for the bacteria to develop resistance?  Thx.



____________________
*** I recently moved to Connecticut so if anyone knows of MP docs in this state or nearby, please send me a PM. ***
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15742
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Sep 1st, 2011 21:13

Quote

Reply
Russ wrote: If bacteria are capable of developing resistance to antimicrobial substances produced by mold and by other bacteria does it follow that they are also capable of developing resistance to the antimicrobial substances that the human immune system produces?  Is there something about the antimicrobials produced by the human immune system that make it more difficult for the bacteria to develop resistance?  Thx.
Answer 1: Yes

Answer 2: Evolution and natural selection of both pathogen and host

But the situation is actually a lot happier than the studies on antibiotic resistance would have you believe. These studies are almost all done in-vitro, so there can be controlled conditions, and they examine only one pathway whereby the microbe evades the antibiotic. Yet Homo sapiens has many different ways of making it tough for the microbes, and activates them (nearly) all at once :)

I guess that, in my final analysis, the reason people become sick from infections like MRSA is far more dependent on their immune system competence than the actual microbe and antibiotic in use.  You can see this in the statistics. Only a very small number of people who are carrying MRSA actually succumb to it.

Otherwise, why get hospital visitors to wash their hands upon entering, to remove the microbes. What microbes? If they are MRSA, then why haven't the visitors succumbed? Medicine is so logically inconsistent :)

Or, simplified, Medicine really knows very little about how antibiotics work, and even less about why they don't work :)

..Trevor..

mvanwink5
Support Team


Joined: Fri Nov 5th, 2010
Location: Newland, North Carolina USA
Posts: 3540
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Sep 2nd, 2011 03:59

Quote

Reply
Alligators and crocodiles can live for 150 years, in a bacteria pea soup, having legs bitten off, with no allopathic drug treatments. There was a report of a snapping turtle captured with a civil war bullet embedded in its shell, still quite healthy. Probably why some mythologies show the universe resting on the back of an immortal turtle, or immortal croc. The point is, innate immune systems with hundreds of different potent antimicrobial peptides at their disposal are formidable. One could view homo sapiens as tall knock out mice without tails, with a chink in the innate immune system that has been nicely exploited. Plug the chink with Dr. M instant bondo, and there you have it. Of course doing it after a lifetime of accumulated pathogen buddies has some IP management challenges. Just some thoughts....
Best regards,
Mike



____________________
Lyme joints, EMF sensitive, MP start 8/10; 25D <4ng/ml 6/19; vegetarian; olmesartan only-240mg/d, RF shielding required, My Progress: http://tinyurl.com/z2stwo8
NickBowler
inactive member


Joined: Wed Dec 20th, 2006
Location: Stirling, United Kingdom
Posts: 189
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Mon Sep 26th, 2011 11:47

Quote

Reply
the innate immune system evolves too:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128314.800-resurrected-ancient-protein-is-a-potent-antibiotic.html



____________________
Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
leroybrown
...


Joined: Sat Oct 31st, 2009
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
Posts: 4784
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2011 06:38

Quote

Reply
It's comforting to know that bacteria most likely can't be resistant to everything the immune system can throw at it.

I wish Dr M's instant bondo was just a tad more instant! :P

Deb



____________________
I just know that something good is going to happen
And I don't know when - Kate Bush
Aplastic anemia Apr/10, PRCA Jan/09, Agranulocytosis 1991
25D = 25 1,25D = 58 Aug 18/09|25D<4.8 Mar/10|10.8 Nov/12
Sep '09 q8h Nov '09 q6h
mvanwink5
Support Team


Joined: Fri Nov 5th, 2010
Location: Newland, North Carolina USA
Posts: 3540
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2011 06:43

Quote

Reply
Deb,
The body couldn't handle the house cleaning, one layer at a time is the only way. Thank goodness it isn't instant. :cool:
Best regards and gentle healing,
Mike



____________________
Lyme joints, EMF sensitive, MP start 8/10; 25D <4ng/ml 6/19; vegetarian; olmesartan only-240mg/d, RF shielding required, My Progress: http://tinyurl.com/z2stwo8
NickBowler
inactive member


Joined: Wed Dec 20th, 2006
Location: Stirling, United Kingdom
Posts: 189
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Sep 27th, 2011 10:43

Quote

Reply
and the bugs evolve with it:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10434.html



____________________
Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
wrotek
member


Joined: Thu Dec 30th, 2004
Location: Wroclaw, Poland
Posts: 2915
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Oct 21st, 2011 01:15

Quote

Reply
I wonder, do bacteria that live in the human body, produce antibiotics that can get into blood stream ? And could this cause herxheimer like reaction- for example sepsis ?

Maybe we could make bacteria work for us :D producing antibiotics for free.

Last edited on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 01:19 by wrotek



____________________
Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
Sallie Q
Support Team


Joined: Sun Jan 25th, 2009
Location: Country_town NSW, Australia
Posts: 5688
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Tue Jan 24th, 2012 18:43

Quote

Reply
And how would you select which ones to employ?
...............be like choosing among applicants for MI5 (or was that MI6? Secret service famous for employing young men recruited in the best colleges, who became double agents for Russia)



____________________
VideoMP'08-'11(now@3x20mgOLM)Dx Depressn'70,node&brCancer'90,BCC'05,Sjgren08|SxCFS,RA,stroke,ASD,reflx 25D=9ng/ml_Nov'17Info
Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15742
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Wed Jan 25th, 2012 01:48

Quote

Reply
wrotek wrote: Maybe we could make bacteria work for us :D producing antibiotics for free.
As with any metabolite in the human body, too much of a good thing is not necessarily good. There is a paper pointing out that Cathelicidin actually participates in Autophagy:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748465
 

stuckpac
Health Professional
 

Joined: Sat Sep 27th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 50
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 26th, 2012 07:58

Quote

Reply
Maybe this has been answered somewhere before, not sure. It is obvious that researchers are working on areas of great interest to MPers, i.e., "D3-mediated innate immunity having been shown to confer protection against intracellular mycobacterial infection" according to the article you link above. I believe, Dr Marshall, that one of your basic premises is that the dysregulation of the VDR by intracellular bacteria happens because of the receptor getting "plastered" by an over-abundance of D2. Has anyone done any work in that area or come close to reproducing any of your work in that area? Or are they just poking at it around the edges and every now and then coming close with studies like the one you quote?

dakotadoc
Health Professional
 

Joined: Thu Jan 17th, 2008
Location: South Dakota USA
Posts: 14
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 26th, 2012 09:12

Quote

Reply
Hi Dr. Marshall and group---
I am wondering if you have an opinion about so-called Morgellons, that has been in the news recently. CDC has said definitely that this "is not an infectious disease," which seems sort of silly, since they didn't test for L-forms.
Do you have an opinion as to whether this condition could be related to L-forms? Apparently there is some epidemiologic link with Morgellons and Lyme Dis.
Wouldn't it be a relatively easy task to collect the junk from these Morgellons pustules, fibers etc., and look for bacterial DNA? Or am I oversimplifying things??

Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
Posts: 15742
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 26th, 2012 11:40

Quote

Reply
Dakotadoc,
Several of our members have had their Morgellons symptoms resolve as they recovered on the MP. This was documented two or three years ago. I told the Morgellons patients' groups, they didn't want to know. The members told the patients' groups. Again, they didn't want to know. The pathogenesis of Morgellons could have been put to bed years ago if the patients groups would move beyond the concepts of 20th Century medicine. A decade has passed, in which the human genome, and thousands of other genomes, have yielded unimaginable insights :)

..Trevor..
ps: The CDC suffers from the same syndrome, but they have an excuse - researchers who need to retire :)



Stuckpac,
in my presentation to the Asian Congress of Autoimmunity last month I tried to explain exactly what is dysregulating the VDR. Please note that 25-D is only a small part of the process, except in people who are supplementing with the 'vitamin' (it is actually an immunosuppressive steroid). Here is the video:

http://vimeo.com/32641708

and here is a PDF transcript (for your files):
http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/Singapore_ACA2011_Marshall.pdf

A number of studies have come out recently supporting our work, and none contradicting it. If you are looking at a study you think is in conflict, then please apply the tests I explained in Singapore - neither animal nor in-vitro modeling are capable of emulating the clinical effects of Vitamin D in humans. Only look at the in-vivo human studies...

..Trevor..

pgeek
Support Team


Joined: Thu Dec 17th, 2009
Location: Israel
Posts: 2220
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 26th, 2012 12:38

Quote

Reply
"Superbugs spied off the Antarctic coast"

If these genes are in Antarctica, it's an indication of how far this [problem] has gone
Unless they've been there all along...



____________________
Chronic Prostatitis, IBD(?)|Covered (+ ZnO in sun) |Sunglasses |25D: <4Jan12 (4Mar11/10Dec10/14Jan10| Alias: MR MUDDLE-THROUGH
stuckpac
Health Professional
 

Joined: Sat Sep 27th, 2008
Location:  
Posts: 50
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 26th, 2012 19:35

Quote

Reply
Spot on! Exactly what I was looking for. I thought I had seen all of your presentations but had missed that one. Thanks for the good explanation.

Gives rise to the following question. If one gets the D level down near zero, does the occasional exogenous D do any harm? Like over the holidays, they passed the shrimp cocktail and I "fell off the wagon" and had a couple which I hadn't had in years. Seems to me that such a rare thing would not do much harm. Or do you think small lapses like that delay healing? Any thoughts?

Cynthia S
Foundation Staff


Joined: Wed Dec 24th, 2008
Location: N., Arizona USA
Posts: 4113
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 26th, 2012 20:20

Quote

Reply
You know, there really is a big difference in the D in fish/seafood.  I think that shell fish (except oysters) and a few fish, like cod and haddock, are not so bad that an occasional partaking will be that bad.  So, take a look at the values for D in the finfish food group here, and multiply the ug by 40 to get IU.

http://webprod3.hc-sc.gc.ca/cnf-fce/nutrientSearch-rechercheAliment.do?lang=eng
(corrected link)

The bottom line I am trying to get at is that if you are going to fall off the wagon, do it with something more reasonable to start with.

Unfortunately this site keeps changing the address every year or so, but it seems to be working now.  I can always find it by using the phrase 'per reasonable portion size' in google to find it again.

Cynthia



____________________
MP start 10/08,break 1/16 - 9/16, Spondylitis'97,early Diverticulosis'98,early AMD'08,Calcium anomaly'95,TypeII Diabetes(?)'02,Degenerative hip disease'12, 25D=10.8 May'18 (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) https://marshallprotocol.com/forum30/13911-2.html
Joyful
Foundation Staff


Joined: Fri Jun 8th, 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 14164
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Thu Jan 26th, 2012 20:35

Quote

Reply
I think the link Cynthia wrote about is currently here:
   http://webprod3.hc-sc.gc.ca/cnf-fce/nutrientSearch-rechercheAliment.do?lang=eng


See also: http://mpkb.org/home/food/vitamind

Last edited on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 15:54 by Joyful



____________________
Video • Be Kind, We Are All Fragile • Forums
`•.¸♥¸.•´`•.¸♥¸.•´`•.¸♥¸.•´`•.¸♥¸.•´`•.¸♥¸.•´

 Current time is 14:34
Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  



* We can help you understand chronic disease, but only your physician is licensed to give you medical care *

Powered by WowBB 1.7 - Entire site Copyright © 2004-2020 Autoimmunity Research Foundation, All Rights Reserved
Click here to view our PRIVACY POLICY
Page processed in 0.0565 seconds (63% database + 37% PHP). 18 queries executed.