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The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > Different bacteria in the gut of autistic children


Different bacteria in the gut of autistic children
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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 18:48

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Anytime one takes an antibiotic, one is altering the microbiota :)

Jory
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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 22:02

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Indeed antibiotics alter the gut flora directly. However I see less people on the MP using antibiotics these days.

Can I assume long term use of olmesartan alone also changes the gut flora?



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2012 22:33

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I would hope that the human immune system knows which species are most harmful, and focuses on them. At this point, whether my hopes are well-founded is still largely unknown :X
 

Frenchie
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 Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2012 07:21

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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: First, though, doctors will have to come to terms with the fact that we are born with our own set of bacteria. "Standard medical teaching is that the fetus is sterile," says Kinross. "The notion that gut development is influenced by maternal bugs will come as a shock. It's a completely new way of thinking about human disease

That would be consistent with this recent study:

All MCs were more prevalent among case mothers compared with controls. Collectively, these conditions were associated with a higher likelihood of ASD and DD relative to controls (odds ratio: 1.61 [95% confidence interval: 1.10–2.37; odds ratio: 2.35 [95% confidence interval: 1.43–3.88], respectively).


http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/04/04/peds.2011-2583.abstract



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NickBowler
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 15:15

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there seems to be some evidence for making a difference through changing gut microbiota:

http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/Gut-bacteria-could-hold-key-in-obesity-fight



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 15:46

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Nick,
One of the issues argued at length last year and this year at the Microbiome conferences has been why Peter Turnbaugh's (ca. 2007) mouse-based microbiota-transplant discoveries don't work in human beings.

Obesity in man is different from obesity in mice and rats. Been known since about 2010...

..Trevor..
 
ps: I have begun to discount everything I read in "Nutrition" journals :)
 

seanlane
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 19:37

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I am not obese by any means...but I will tell you this...and it may be my own thing. When I did began to lose body fat and get down into a range I had not been in since way before the expression of morbidities, I began to experience everything all over again.

Besides all of this talk about the gut,it makes me wonder if some of the pathogens hide deep into fat,muscle or nervous tissue to evade some aspects of the immune system.

Once I began to get 'fat' again, all of the symptoms strangely disappeared.



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 19:42

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Yes, the microbiota love adipose tissue (fat). There was a presentation mentioning that at the recent Paris conference...
 

seanlane
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 19:56

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And do they proliferate from there? Is this why many major disease factors are increased with obesity? If you eat more and gain more fat does it make it harder for he immune system to target microbiota living in the fat tissue? Will the immune system eventually get to them anyway?

Last edited on Thu Apr 26th, 2012 19:58 by seanlane



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 19:59

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The microbes traffic through blood, inside phagocytic cells, to all regions of the body.
 

seanlane
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 Posted: Thu Apr 26th, 2012 20:11

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Sorry....off the subject but..fat as an organ?


Far from hormonally inert, adipose tissue has in recent years been recognized as a major endocrine organ[1], as it produces hormones such as leptin, resistin, and the cytokine TNFα


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15181022



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Cynthia S
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27th, 2012 10:18

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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: Yes, the microbiota love adipose tissue (fat). There was a presentation mentioning that at the recent Paris conference... 

Dr. Marshall, this sounds fascinating.  I would love to hear more about this presentation.  Did they find this with DNA techniques?  Could we maybe get a discussion of this in another thread?

Cynthia



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 Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2012 11:59

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Not sure this is the right category for this. Saw this posted today......

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120429234641.htm



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 Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2012 16:39

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My recollection is that adipose tissue also produces estrogen.
Best regards,
Mike



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 Posted: Mon May 21st, 2012 16:11

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This is a link to yet another study about abnormal microbiota in the guts of ASD children -

http://mbio.asm.org/content/3/1/e00261-11.full.pdf

All manner of baddies have now been proposed to infect the guts of ASD children with this study proposing yet another species.



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon May 21st, 2012 16:21

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 This study goes a little further, by linking a metabolite in the gut with one in the brain, but only for the sick folk:

http://goo.gl/jHLtF

Of course, I am sure there are dozens, or hundreds, of other significant metabolites, but at least this is one step further along the path...
 

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 Posted: Wed May 23rd, 2012 14:58

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Very intriguing study Dr Marshall.  I wonder if the gut also may show the early signs of ALS another neurological disease that severely affects motor neurons.  I have noticed more constipation the last couple of years before my ALS diagnosis ... and the article mentions this is seen in Parkinson's patients also.  This whole idea of gut microbes affecting the CNS implies a systemic effect on the whole body when infected with the microbiota. 



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 Posted: Thu Jul 26th, 2012 17:06

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Just caught the very end of this show, heard the word "microbiota" and had to look it up.

http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/episode/autism-enigma.html

A fresh perspective on autism research with the developing "Bacterial Theory" of autism. The fastest-growing developmental disorder in the industrialized world, autism has increased an astounding 600 per cent over the last 20 years. Science cannot say why. Some say it's triggered by environmental factors and point to another intriguing statistic: 70 per cent of kids with autism also have severe gastrointestinal symptoms. Could autism actually begin in the gut? The Autism Enigma looks at the progress of an international group of scientists who are studying the gut's amazingly diverse and powerful microbial ecosystem for clues to the baffling disorder.



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 Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2012 07:17

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Hello,

my son had real problems, he had what I would call a brainfog that made his functioning in school almost unbearable. After a horrible path along several docters, one who would cut in his stomage, one with medicines that gave in a poisoning, we found one who gave him an laxative, which should do nothing but cure his digetion which was disturbed. Now the mirical happend, the brainfog slowly disapeared, and after a year or two we had a bright active inteligend boy back. It has certainly a relation!
If this is bacteria that live in the gut, or something else I do not know ( as marshal follower I should say it is bacteria) but the laxative still works, and as soon as we stop it the problem comes back.

I am trying to get him on the MP but he is not yet ready for it.

Erik (Roelof)



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 Posted: Fri Jul 27th, 2012 12:28

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Very interesting, roelof. Your son's experience correlates with my own as a teenager and young adult with brain fog and constipation (brain fog started out seeming to correlate with constipation, later developed into brain fog all the time, regardless of digestive system function).



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