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"All autoimmune diseases have the same mechanism"
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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 02:08

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I just watched a video from Prof Yehuda Shoenfeld, editor-in-chief of Autoimmunity Reviews, co-editor of Journal of Autoimmunity, and arguably the 'father of autoimmunity' (behind only Sir Macfarlane Burnet and Prof Noel Rose).

He is stating the message that we ourselves set out to propagate in 2003 - that all 'autoimmune disease' has a common mechanism. He does it well, and from a position of authority. Here is the video - and I hope you enjoy watching it as much as I did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM5B6EAhc6I

Watch it with your family and friends...

..Trevor..

Verena
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 03:02

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The Video Dr. Marshall has linked is only a fraction of the whole interview, obviously on youtube in several little videos, short enough, so that everyone can follow them.

However, this fraction here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-9YkjctcmU
contains a very interesting vision of Prof. Shoenfeld at 1:29. He uses the word cure in connection with autoimmunity. Put in quotation marks, but it is there. Loud and clear.



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jezzer
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 07:01

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Do you happen to know his position on CFS - does he think that is an autoimmune illness ?



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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 07:28

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As a young girl, I recall reading about a famous nurse who claimed, and I paraphrase, "there is but one human disease, with many different manifestations". 

I puzzled about it at the time, being about 10 years old, but stuck it away in my brain.  I am not sure who said it, or the exact wording, but it's the same idea:  the immune system is  compromised and the bacteria/fungus/virus interfere with our health.

Yes, we have come full circle.  But this time, the concept will not be lost in dusty books in a library:  it will be hopefully picked up and used to tackle human diseases.

Sherry



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Ron
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 08:11

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"There are no specific diseases only specific disease conditions"---Florence Nightingale.

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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 08:20

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Now if only I can get my sister with MS to watch this and understand that she and I have the same disease with a different manifestation. Thanks Dr. M!

Last edited on Mon Jul 1st, 2013 08:21 by GillyB



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Ron
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 08:39

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Verena wrote: However, this fraction here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-9YkjctcmU
contains a very interesting vision of Prof. Shoenfeld at 1:29. He uses the word cure in connection with autoimmunity. Put in quotation marks, but it is there. Loud and clear.

I also like this one, at 0:54: "The best therapy is avoidance". :dude:

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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 11:49

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Ron wrote
I also like this one, at 0:54: "The best therapy is avoidance". :dude:

So.... another reason to take part in the Nice congress. He might tell us what to avoid in order not to catch an autoimmunedisease.

Last edited on Mon Jul 1st, 2013 12:11 by Verena



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Ron
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 11:56

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I bet Shoenfeld will not tell us to avoid Vitamin D. :?

Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 12:56

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Do you happen to know his position on CFS - does he think that is an autoimmune illness ?

There are specific autoantibodies associated with CFS/ME, so a good rheumatologist will generally accept that it is an autoimmune condition. The antibodies are detailed in our recent paper:

http://AutoimmunityResearch.org/preprints/2013-Lindseth-ImmunologicResearch.pdf

or the simplified presentation transcript:

http://autoimmunityresearch.org/transcripts/Auto2012_IngeLindseth.pdf

don't forget the video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IMdAV6SIMU

..Trevor..



Cynthia S
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 14:17

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Para phrasing, Shoenfeld says when treatment is started for one auto immune disease, other problems improve. Can I assume he is talking about using immune suppressants?

He lists environment and genetics for differing symptoms, but said nothing about infection. Perhaps his talk about finding drugs to treat is clouding his judgment as he no doubt would like to be involved in finding a block buster drug for autoimmunity.

Cynthia



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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 14:21

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I wondered about some of the same things as Cynthia as I listened to the presentation.



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Jul 1st, 2013 16:48

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Cynthia, when he is talking about symptoms improving he means immediately, due to the use of immunosuppressives such as methotrexate and prednisone. Recently, high dose Vit-D supplementation has been used to give the patients relief.

There are so many paradigm shifts needed between the way that Modern Medicine thinks about disease, and helping patients, and what is needed if we are to overcome the surge in chronic disease. The surge is currently growing faster than any nation's ability to control it with immunosuppression. But what else can they use? There is nothing else... (until TPTB learn to use Google...)


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 Posted: Tue Jul 2nd, 2013 04:42

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Thanks for your reply on CFS/ME antibodies - maybe the new place in London will be able to screen for thsee one day...



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 Posted: Tue Jul 2nd, 2013 20:42

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Research methodology is so important; getting people to look at old problems with new eyes. I think Dr Gordon Rugg has a handle on the problem and he has even formulated a method to discover just what methodological mistakes are being made (hence better ways to go about research!)  We need people like him working on our topic.
http://www.keele.ac.uk/scm/staff/academic/drgordonrugg/



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Jul 3rd, 2013 06:54

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Claudia, many of my Russian colleagues have not discarded the old research methodologies :) That is why it is so stimulating to talk with them - and learn from them. Several have been around a very long time - they were already considered 'experts' when they were called in to look after the Chernobyl survivors :)

Have you seen the video I posted yesterday?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PfrkhsKEc
 
..Trevor..

mvanwink5
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 Posted: Wed Jul 3rd, 2013 12:38

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Dr. Marshall,
In reference to the May 16 St. Petersburg State University talk question about the microbiome being in a constant flux, wouldn't it be worthwhile to address the intracellular microbiome separately? Wouldn't it be more likely that the intracellular microbiome is fairly stable? The supposition that intracellular microbiome is largely stable comes from the MP position that the intracellular pathogens are slow growing and the gradual nature of their seeming accumulation over decades. Furthermore the intracellular microbiome are largely isolated from the more dynamic changes in the body by the cell walls and usual intracellular organelle membranes that bacteria hide behind.

Best regards
Mike

Last edited on Wed Jul 3rd, 2013 12:42 by mvanwink5



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Jul 3rd, 2013 16:32

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Yes, Mike, I could have answered that question better, I think. The phagocytic cells have a limited life (a few weeks), and have to frequently propagate microbial communities from old to new cells, so there is significant possibility they may be affected by the microbes in the bloodstream (which are presumably in flux from the GI tract).

In any case, it seems that many of the GI tract microbes, those in the cells of the GI epithelium, are pretty persistent. If you flush out a person's GI tract with antibiotics, most of the same species tend to reappear, over time (I think it was Dave Relman's presentation in Seattle where I saw that).
 

mvanwink5
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 Posted: Wed Jul 3rd, 2013 22:46

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Dr. Marshall,
As an exception though, I don't understand why a Salmonella GI infection has such a prolonged and radical clear cutting affect on the gut microbe spectrum. Pharma must be envious.

As to your question response, and perhaps to the contrary, I thought your answer was rather diplomatic. Also, It always seems impressive that you don't lose your train of thought with the translation breaks.
Best regards



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Jul 4th, 2013 03:43

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mvanwink5 wrote: I don't understand why a Salmonella GI infection has such a prolonged and radical clear cutting affect on the gut microbe spectrum.
Well, isn't Salmonella one of the persistent intraphagocytic pathogens? It seems to be, at least in pigs...

http://www.veterinaryresearch.org/content/42/1/118


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