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Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Oct 31st, 2013 20:18 |
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http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/GeneralEndocrinology/42575
"Increasing vitamin D levels had no effect on calcium absorption in young women, researchers reported .. women who started out with vitamin D insufficiency were brought up to normal levels through supplements over a 1-year period .. But the supplementation had no effect on calcium absorption at any dose"
So, by my count at least, there is no real benefit in preventing disease, no real benefit absorbing calcium, no benefit whatsoever in taking Vit D supplements. Just temporary relief from suppressing the innate immune system. What else is there to say?  Except - now the bad news starts, as the heavily supplemented folk start dropping by the wayside due to long term harm from taking high doses of this steroid...
The actual paper reporting the study is behind a paywall at:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jbmr.2121/abstract
..Trevor..
(ps: Thanks to dnstog for sending me the link)
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DNStog
member
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Posted: Thu Oct 31st, 2013 21:33 |
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From a 2012 study on calcium absorption for older women, by same scientist..pretty much same results.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22855333
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Sarcoidosis systemic; Raynaud's, uveitis, sinus, wt. gain, Peradontal disease, GERD-hiatal hernia, breast ca 11/06, 25D7, Cinnamon, claritine, Milk Thistle, Rx glacier, 05/09 25D5, 125D7
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Ron
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Thu Oct 31st, 2013 23:43 |
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"Very efficient calcium absorption at very low levels of serum 25OHD explains why people do not develop osteomalacia provided that dietary intake of calcium and phosphorus is adequate."
That is a strong statement. And a good thing they mention phosphorus.
Great find Donna!
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GillyB
inactive member
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Posted: Fri Nov 1st, 2013 05:06 |
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I had this argument with my NP a couple of weeks ago. Just sent her the articles.
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MP start Jun'12, once again on an MP break | Degenerative Disc Disease, Osteoarthritis, Post-Lyme, depression/anxiety, GI. Most recent serum 25D: 6/15 -18
Carry on, and keep MP'ing
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Markt9452
Support Team
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Posted: Fri Nov 1st, 2013 05:16 |
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| Nice!
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MP Feb08 (no breaks) light sensitivity, fatigue, confusion, muscle twitching, memory loss, dyslexia, skin lesions, sore feet, electrical sensations, vertigo, tinnitus, 125D20 D25<10 2008.Olm.60mg/day. Iver(1/2 dose)q4days+22mg zinc pinc/day.
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Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Fri Nov 1st, 2013 05:26 |
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This particularly caught my eye, from the Discussion in the fulltext:We did not find any threshold for calcium absorption at low serum 25OHD levels. There are now two cross-sectional studies of approximately 1000 women that do not show a threshold change in calcium absorption over the serum 25OHD range 10-50 ng/dl (24,25) and one study of subjects that shows a small decrease in calcium absorption when serum 25OHD < 4ng/ml (25) This is in agreement with our previous results from older women that active transport of calcium is saturated at very low levels of serum 25OHD.
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Alejandro
Member*
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Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2013 09:48 |
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I had posted similar findings in the UGESA Board some months ago:
http://ugesa.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=507&sid=a611db651ec69ffbf76a44a7eb421aeb
May be it can be translated automatically with known tools.
One of the most active promotors of the theory that calcium absortion in the intestine is effective only at 25D levels > 30 ng/ml is Heaney .
http://www.grassrootshealth.net/media/download/2010-04-9-Heaney.pdf
see slide 31.
Since he published the data showing that behavior, this "dogma" has been repeated, re-published, re-discussed infinite times. The famous graph of Haney is put as an example in almost every board that discuss Vitamin D topics.
I was always very sceptic about this data as a clear dependency on the inactive metabolite is not what one would expect, but did not have better arguments (besides the MP) till I discovered a scientist that had already published serious criticism on the work of Haney and published it in:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/4/835.full.pdf
Heaney had not measured anything, but took data from other people and merged data from several experiments in his famous graph. Aloia had measured Calcium absorption before but it had not published it.
Aloia et al, as difference of Haney they measured the calcium absorption using a set of data consistently taken and measured using single isotope methods in 492 healthy womans from age range 20-80 years.
The result: here was no relation between serum 25(OH)D concentrations and calcium absorption efficiency.
Event the relationship of 1,25D was very weak...
I think this history is a good example how low quality publications are taken by the press, republished so many times till almost everybody think they are true.
Cheers
AlexLast edited on Fri Nov 8th, 2013 12:12 by Alejandro
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Skin Sarcoidosis (2004) 1,25 D3 : 46 pg/ml (was 63 pg/ml) 25 D :18 ng/ml (now increased in Summer, was 9 ng/ml). EBV
MP since Dec 2009. Only Olmesartan 3x40 mg
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Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Fri Nov 8th, 2013 11:05 |
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The press also tend to think they are competent to act as 'arbiters of truth', based on what "sounds right" to them (or their personal physician). Often it is the blind leading the blind...
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be-well
Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 11th, 2013 11:16 |
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There must be data out there also, about calcification of organ systems. I wonder if there is a study of this outcome, in patient groups heavily supplementing calcium and / or D3. Or would their doctors put it down to a pre existing disease process especially if a long term steroid was in the picture. ?
This seems to have been noted in Sarcoidosis but scantily so.
angela.
Last edited on Mon Nov 11th, 2013 11:23 by be-well
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mcs,chronic fatigue,hiatus hernia,grains intolerance,tinnitus,photosensitivity,lesion in splenium of corpus callosum
25-D-3.3,-1,25D-70,Dec 2014.25-D-18, 1,25D,45.Sept 2019.
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NickBowler
inactive member
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Posted: Sun Nov 24th, 2013 12:48 |
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Bone density in blacks:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/GeneralEndocrinology/43049?xid=nl_mpt_DHE_2013-11-21
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Sarcoirodis CIDP, MP start 11/07, NoIRs, 02/08 25D-8, Ph3 since 07/08|
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Markt9452
Support Team
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Posted: Sun Nov 24th, 2013 18:29 |
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| That blacks have higher bone mineral density but lower 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels than whites has been "a perplexing paradox," wrote Michael F. Holick, MD, PhD, in an accompanying editorial. Last edited on Sun Nov 24th, 2013 18:30 by Markt9452
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MP Feb08 (no breaks) light sensitivity, fatigue, confusion, muscle twitching, memory loss, dyslexia, skin lesions, sore feet, electrical sensations, vertigo, tinnitus, 125D20 D25<10 2008.Olm.60mg/day. Iver(1/2 dose)q4days+22mg zinc pinc/day.
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Cynthia S
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Sun Nov 24th, 2013 19:25 |
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Can anyone explain what this sentence means in term of WHAT they did?
"Results were based on calculation of bioavailable 25-hydroxyvitamin D, rather than direct measurement."
I don't understand how they are using the term Bio-available. Are they suggesting that the 25D measured is some how of multiple characteristics? And somehow some of it doesn't count because it is not bio-available?
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MP start 10/08,break 1/16 - 9/16, Spondylitis'97,early Diverticulosis'98,early AMD'08,Calcium anomaly'95,TypeII Diabetes(?)'02,Degenerative hip disease'12, 25D=10.8 May'18 (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) https://marshallprotocol.com/forum30/13911-2.html
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Diesel
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Posted: Mon Nov 25th, 2013 10:39 |
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How A Vitamin D Test Misdiagnosed African-Americans
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/11/20/246393329/how-a-vitamin-d-test-misdiagnosed-african-americans
Meanwhile Holick, who wrote an editorial in the journal accompanying Thadhani's study, intends to keep giving his African-American patients vitamin D supplements when their blood levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D are low, even though they may not need the pills to maintain strong bones.
"There's no downside to supplementation, so it's not a big deal," Holick says.
Diesel
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Vit.B12 Hydroxo-cobalamin injection dependant 1995 Sublingual Methyl-cobalamin and Adenosyl-cobalamin tabl. 2008
Osteoporosis 2007 True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing
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DNStog
member
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Posted: Fri Jul 24th, 2015 23:32 |
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A recent paper linked below regarding Vitamin D not helpful in preventing Osteoporosis as pushed by the "industry".
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Endocrinology/Osteoporosis/52729?
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Sarcoidosis systemic; Raynaud's, uveitis, sinus, wt. gain, Peradontal disease, GERD-hiatal hernia, breast ca 11/06, 25D7, Cinnamon, claritine, Milk Thistle, Rx glacier, 05/09 25D5, 125D7
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Joyful
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Sat Jul 25th, 2015 00:11 |
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Another review of the study:
Commercial ties may be fueling unnecessary and potentially harmful osteoporosis treatment
July 21, 2015
A complex web of interactions between industry, advocacy organisations, and academia may be fuelling enthusiasm for calcium and vitamin D supplements to prevent and treat osteoporosis, despite evidence of lack of benefit, warn doctors in The BMJ this week.
Calcium and vitamin D are highly profitable treatments that are widely recommended for osteoporosis, despite increasing evidence contradicting the practice, write Andrew Grey and Mark Bolland from the University of Auckland.
Several therapies previously recommended for osteoporosis, such as oestrogen and fluoride, have been discarded because of evidence of lack of benefit or important harm. So why are calcium and vitamin D supplements still recommended, they ask?
One possible explanation, they say, is vested interests of industry, advocacy organisations, and academia.
They searched the websites of key commercial and advocacy organisations and specialist societies to determine the extent of these interests.
They found that industry and its lobby groups fund and influence the activities and policies of osteoporosis advocacy organisations such as the US National Osteoporosis Foundation (NOF) and the Europe based International Osteoporosis Foundation (IOF).
The commerical entities include supplements manufacturers, companies that produce vitamin D test kits, and the Council for Responsible Nutrition, which describes itself as the "leading trade association representing dietary supplement manufacturers and ingredient suppliers."
The NOF and IOF have not changed their positions to reflect the accumulating evidence, note the authors. In fact, after evidence accrued that calcium and vitamin D do not safely reduce fracture risk, "the nutrition industry continued to partner with osteoporosis advocacy organisations to promote their widespread use."
They argue that some prominent academics and specialist societies have undeclared commercial and academic conflicts of interest in the nutrition osteoporosis field.
They also point out that the National Bone Health Alliance (an offshoot of the NOF) recently advocated broadening the diagnostic criteria for osteoporosis, "which would lead to recommendations for treatment in 50% and 86% of American men and women aged over 75 years, respectively."
:
Source article: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/doi/10.1136/bmj.h3170
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Prof Trevor Marshall
Foundation Staff
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Posted: Sat Jul 25th, 2015 02:42 |
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This review has an interesting graphic
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wrotek
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Posted: Sat Jul 25th, 2015 12:58 |
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My grandmother is great example of this. She had 30 % on bone mass left at the end of her life, always taking a lot of vitamin D for years and calcium, had so many Th1 symptoms like facial teeth nerve pains, which i have, heart problems ...etc...
Last edited on Sat Jul 25th, 2015 13:28 by wrotek
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Borreliosis(4 strains),Bartonella IgG only, reflux,headache TMJD ,chronic pain,chronic fatigue,depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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Joyful
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Posted: Sat Jul 25th, 2015 23:46 |
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And how many x-rays did she get? Don't x-rays promote bone loss?
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wrotek
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Posted: Sun Jul 26th, 2015 14:36 |
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I dont know, will have to ask.... But probably not much, why would she get them a lot, i dont see a reason
How many is a lot ?
Last edited on Sun Jul 26th, 2015 17:01 by wrotek
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Borreliosis(4 strains),Bartonella IgG only, reflux,headache TMJD ,chronic pain,chronic fatigue,depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06
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Joyful
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Posted: Mon Jul 27th, 2015 04:33 |
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Look up the level of radiation given when a person's bones are scanned for bone density.
The machine used in the US is the DEXA scanner.
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