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A Unified View of the Marshall Pathogenesis
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   
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Prof Trevor Marshall
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Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
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 Posted: Sat Apr 8th, 2006 13:14
True, Reenie,
I was just wanting to make sure that point was absolutely clear to everybody here:)

Chubby Chicken
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Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 35
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 Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 18:11
Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: One can generate herx from killing just one or two species. I prefer an multi-species-kill, and that is why I try and get folks to Phase 2 as soon as practicable.

Would you apply this same reasoning to moving through Phase 2 and into Phase 3?



____________________
Borrelia, Rickettsia, Suprascapular denervation, Phase-1 Dec 9/05, Phase-2 Feb 23/06, Phase-3 Jun 25/06, Olmesartan 40mg Q8H, M+Z+C, avoiding dietary D, 04/05:Vit-D:60/40ng/mL
Prof Trevor Marshall
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Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
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 Posted: Sun Apr 9th, 2006 19:08
Yes, I would prefer a lower dose of three abx than a higher dose of two.

Robertrr
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Joined: Wed Jul 13th, 2005
Location: Austin, Texas USA
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 Posted: Mon Apr 10th, 2006 07:51
Trevor, that's good news. Keep getting the good word out!

I guess the biggest hang-up my regular physicians had (which led me to find someone who'd do the MP) is the Benicar (more than once a day) issue. I had convinced my Rheumy that the abx in their perscribed doses was ok....he just wouldn't go along with the benicar. I think WHEN the benicar becomes approved as an orphan drug, there will be a lot more doctors willing to use the MP as method for treating patients.

However, that's only my experience.

Robert



____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D44 25D28 Ph1Jul05 Ph2Sep05 Ph3May06 D25-8(Feb07) May08 NoIRs outside otherwise normal light exposure
Claudia
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Joined: Fri Sep 23rd, 2005
Location: Cooroy, Australia
Posts: 472
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 Posted: Tue Apr 11th, 2006 02:19
Yes, my MD's biggest worry seemed to be the use of a blood pressure medication for anything else; that my BP would become a problem.  He checks it at every visit and seems pleasantly surprised to find it stabilised and not causing any illness of its own (only annoying side-effects like lightheadedness and sleepiness.)

I think doctors are quite harried and dependent on drug company reps to tell them what a drug is good for, so why not take this opportunity to educate them in the alternative uses/functions of both the ARB and the antibiotics?

It's a matter of semantics.  If you sound like you are apologising for using a drug in an unconventional manner, merely playing around with some side-effect of it's use, that sounds too experimental. You need to word your presentation in an authoritative way, (on a poster or anywhere Doctors read it,) so that they perceive they are hearing about an alternative medical use; hence, the new Protocol using an established medication.

Personally, as a professional wordsmith, I suspect that your battle with the medical establishment is often based on emotive argument, as opposed to being based on unbiased examination of the science, if you catch my meaning. (How often do phrases like 'snake-oil' and 'witch-doctoring' enter the conversation?)  It's all in how you market yourself.  If this was a marketplace (which it is) and you were trying to sell your protocol (which I suppose you are) you'd be looking at who your market is and what they want. I can't think of a better reason for an average Physician to use a new protocol than the fact that it will do the best job of curing their patients. I've said to my doctor, "I'm your guinea pig; when you have cured me, you may then feel confident to use it on many more patients.  You will be a local hero." (Not that he has a big ego about it, but other doctors may respond to this.)

Last edited on Tue Apr 11th, 2006 02:43 by Claudia



____________________
MP Phase1 23Mar_06; Phase2 July 10_06; Phase3 Nov 4_06. Dx Thyroiditis (Thyroxine); arthritis; glaucoma; CFS (1988-92);Kidney & bladder probs., Osteoporosis Dx 2015, Burning Mouth Syndrome! 2016. Feb06 1,25D=43.3; Aug07 1,25D=27.5; Feb06 25D=44; Mar08
bookdad
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Joined: Mon Aug 15th, 2005
Location: Riverdale, Utah USA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 19th, 2006 05:29
Hi Trevor and other folks! here is my two cents.

I am an electrical engineer and believe strongly in the KISS principle: "Keep it simple, stupid" (Not referring to anyone here but maybe some of the viewers of your poster). People will only have a few seconds to take in your message so it needs to be short, sweet, and to the point.

Maybe: "What is Sarcoidoidosis?" or better yet "What is TH1 disease?"

then a short blurb and then a large picture,

then "What we are doing to treat it"

and a short blurb with a tag line at the end:

For more info contact: your info, Then the MP site address.

And a few more pictures at the bottom of different aspects: the scatter plot of Vit D, Your Picture, a patient or two, and some of the pics from your papers.

The Lap top idea is great, but it would be stolen.

That would be it. uncluttered and succinct. :D

Treavor, as far as  my Dr(s) reluctance/ lack of comprehension:

My Pulminologist rejected the Idea outright. He said " You don't have vitamin D toxicity" and wouldn't even read the material. the "I'm the Dr, I know everything, your just a patient (lab animal), and know nothing" "I give you pain and discomfort in exchange for your money and dignity, now get out of my office and take that nonsense with you!" attitudes.

My MD read the material and felt it had some interesting points and Ideas, but felt that "she was uncomfortable trying a new protocol without more knowledge" and had the hardest time with the meds and dosage.

My MP Dr. was not hesitant but did want the dreaded Blood test (gives me the heebie geebies just typing it) to verify my condition even though I had been diagnosed years earlier. This is good (I can't believe I said that!) because it gives a baseline to measure against. He also has a bit of hesitancy with the meds dosage and frequesncy. An interesting note is that his wife also has Sarcoid and was thinking about putting her on the MP.

Good luck!

Let us know how it turns out!



____________________
Sarcoidosis/lungs RA Ph1Nov05 Ph2Mar06 Ph3Aug06 lite exp r/t to work cover up NoIRs Ph5 Aug 09
jackie carpenter
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 Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 01:42
Hi Dr Marshall

I am a patient on Phase 1 of the MP, currently on 75mg mino. I am in the UK.

My GP and consultant both had big problems that the MP hasn't been peer reviewed. They were advised by their professional bodies not to prescribe the meds to me in case anything went wrong and I sued them. I am lucky that the consultant trusts me personally (after 1 year of seeing her) and respects my attitude to my health. She is therefore happy to authorise the GP to prescribe the meds. But, in the UK, the max recommended dose of olmesartan is 40mg per day, and despite reading your info on the safety of the higher dose, and the tail off of the hypertensive effect, they only prescribe it to me at that level. I take it at the level 120mg pd, and am considering taking it up to 160mg pd. I have to make my own arrangements to get extra supplies, but the GP and consultant cannot 'officially' know how I do it.

So, the two major issues were peer review, and dosage level.

I am sad because I know I only got the go ahead for the MP because I am, like the consultant, educated and articulate; and I found a sympathetic consultant. It wasn't easy. And others might well find it impossible.

Hope this helps

Jackie Carpenter

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Location: Thousand Oaks, California USA
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 Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 02:55
Jackie,
Peer review is the process by which a scientific paper is sent to one's "peers" for their comments before publication.

Our work has been peer-reviewed extensively, and been gone-over with a fine-tooth-comb. I have no idea what you mean when you say that our work has not been peer-reviewed.

Our JOIMR papers, for example, even use open peer review, where the reviewers even shed their anonymity to ensure the integrity of their reviews - take a look at the peer-reviews at the bottom of this paper:
http://www.joimr.org/phorum/read.php?f=2&i=38&t=38

Additionally, all our conference abstracts and journal publications have been peer-reviewed. Here is a list of some of the work I have published over the course of nearly 25 years
http://www.trevormarshall.com/papers.htm

I have recently been cleared by a CME (Continuing Medical Education) committee as being competent to participate in providing CME training for physicians. So I have no idea where you, or your consultant, got the idea that our work was not peer reviewed. Nothing could be further from the truth:)

Claudia
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Joined: Fri Sep 23rd, 2005
Location: Cooroy, Australia
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 Posted: Tue Apr 25th, 2006 16:32
What "they" (doctors) mean when they say it hasn't been peer reviewed, is: they don't yet know it has been peer reviewed.  Doctors think like that. What they don't yet know, doesn't yet exist. Furthermore, when they DO discover that something exists, they don't like to acknowledge that anyone outside of their profession (non-MDs like Trevor) might have thought of it first. Doctors egos are like that.

The trick is to get over caring how they think and let them think that they thought of it first, so we can just HAVE the jolly stuff and get on with it. Anyway, that's how I think. ;)

I suspect that publicity in medical journals commnly read by our MDs is one of the best ways for them to find out about it; the other best way is for drug company reps to tell them. :? 

Since we are not drug reps, i think the next best thing to do is print out those links Trevor points us to and take them in to our doctors' offices.  I will bet that MOST currently practicing doctors (like mine, bless him) are not of the DotCom generation and therefore Not Computer Literate - too busy being doctors! - and they've missed reading those particular articles quoted... So we need to follow those links for them and give it to them on "dead trees" (paper). 

Copies of the actual glossy journal article would be even better, if there was a stack of them available...

:D Claudia



____________________
MP Phase1 23Mar_06; Phase2 July 10_06; Phase3 Nov 4_06. Dx Thyroiditis (Thyroxine); arthritis; glaucoma; CFS (1988-92);Kidney & bladder probs., Osteoporosis Dx 2015, Burning Mouth Syndrome! 2016. Feb06 1,25D=43.3; Aug07 1,25D=27.5; Feb06 25D=44; Mar08
bookdad
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Location: Riverdale, Utah USA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 16th, 2006 09:42
Great idea Claudia! I wonder where one could secure the "goods" -glossy paper originals or reprints? Then we could post that info for those who approaching their Dr. about the MP.

The other problem is that the Dr. is really busy (like we all said) so getting them to read it is another story (punn intended). Maybe leaving it in the restroom (or loo) or sneaking it onto his clipboard? :D

My (X)Pulminologist is going to be eating alot of crow when he finally reads/ hears/ figures it out. :P



____________________
Sarcoidosis/lungs RA Ph1Nov05 Ph2Mar06 Ph3Aug06 lite exp r/t to work cover up NoIRs Ph5 Aug 09
Blueberry1
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Joined: Mon Dec 12th, 2005
Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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 Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 02:15
Dear Trevor Marshall

Hope you get this, I am aged 51, unable to get on your protocol in UK, have had many illnesses, main problem seems to be holding on to a thought, names especially, My illnesses are I think unique and I believe I should be thoroughly examined for the benefit of mankind, not much hope for me. Some of the illnesses I have had include (Forgot, when born my mothers water was infected), Measles at a few months old and light sensitive, sleep walker age 6, chickenpox age 7, (note in early years had white powder soaked through shirt, took Calcium supplement for 1 year as chap up road died of bones turning to powder), Mumps aged 10, note was early in puberty age 10/11, age 10 tinnitus right ear & persistent coughing now believe this was Tuberculosis, had trouble blowing balloons up and running although Father was ex Army and very fit, although over 5ft 10inches, have short arms and legs, Age 15 diagnosed with a condition which I will not name here, GP then disappeared. Age 17 Glandular fever, or they told me at the time it was a condition from Milk, and would not specify, was too ill to go to hospital, parents would change mattress every 2 hours as it was soaked through with sweat, unable to go back to Sunday Football League, suffered from fatigue (suspect ME) and had protein in urine, specialist insisted i was taking analgesics, i was not. then went on diagnosed with Chronic Sarcoidosis in 1978, 1981 had shingles, 1991 had flue like symptoms for 6 weeks, GP insisted I take Penicillin, I said rather not as mother was very allergic having had 3 years of Penicillin prior to my birth, GP insisted, half way through course I had severe Diarrhea for 3 hours, then later I developed bad teeth and had to have 7 fillings, never had any before, then had memory problems. Early 2004 blood pressure started going through roof and arms and legs jumping, ( keep forgetting things, year 2004 now believe symptoms were MS as went blind in left eye for several hours and other conditions now fit in),real problems started have been very ill since, altered diet, helped, dad died with MRSA at same time suspect I have this as I now have to take, Garlic, Manuka Honey and Silver spray to get by.PS, diagnosed with enlarged left atrium 2004 and P wave form also forgot had blacking out sessions 2000 consider nano bacteria/vit D a major cause of road rage, from personal experience as I am mainly effected in mid afternoon(a high sun year), scan identified abnormal left side brain activity and candidate for seizure. No medical help except antibiotics when had Glandular Fever and second Gp took me off them and went mad with first GP. ALARM Consider condition is moderately contagious and relevant conditions other than recipients to include if I am particularly ill at the time, also if living or working in close prolonged conditions, conditions people tend to get involve Cancer and fatality can occur within 1 Year. I may have reduced the biase towards contagion by being aware of condition and targeting my general health, also conditions I have endured so far seem to have been overcome by will power and even stopped without me yet being able to overcome the underlying condition... Contact me lets save the world. (I may be able to put this problem and your info to Government as I am trying my best to get help, unfortunately it seems to me that many people are ill with underlying bacterial problems and they cannot see it).

God help us all

From David Connell  

Julia
.


Joined: Tue Aug 10th, 2004
Location: Belfast, United Kingdom
Posts: 1070
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 07:24
Hi David,

Please don't give up trying for a doctor to prescribe the MP.  Now that it's becoming better known, even over here, your chances are steadily increasing.

  • Have you tried taking your own GP printouts of the MP research papers?
  • Did you try offering to sign a waiver to say you take full responsibility for your treatment, and won't sue if anything goes wrong?
  • Did you offer your doctor my doc's phone number to get reassurance that I'm doing really well on the MP and the high dose of Olmesartan doesn't do any harm?
  • Have you tried the other doctors in the practice?
  • Did you try the Derby contact you were given?
  • Have you tried other practices near you?
You won't be the first one to have to fight for the MP, and fighting isn't easy when you're sick, but we're all here behind you rooting for you. :cool:

Julia 

Blueberry1
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Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
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 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2007 14:36
Thanks for your response Julia

But I am very serious about my being the answer to this problem and I am even more serious about everyone being ill, and this is world wide and will probably cause WW3, I can see it so clearly, there is a lot more than I have already said including both Doctors who treated me when I had Glandular Fever both died with Cancer, my Gran who lived with us died with Cancer and my best friend died with Cancer, his brother in Law who I had only seen from a distance was at the Hospital at the same time as me and we were both diagnosed with Sarcoidosis, (Q, does it have a life cycle) it is my belief that over 90% of all illness is down to nano bacteria probably morphed from Leprosy, this is why so many things are going wrong in the world, I mean they cannot even supply Petrol properly now, they cannot run a railway, I know I can see it, I have been ignoring my own thoughts for years, yet when an original thought comes to me, it is always right, example I predicted I would pick the winner for the Grand National, Red Rum the first time, I cashed in my last endowment policy the Friday before 9-11-2001, I even went up to the ladies darts team and asked for the winnings from the raffle, they said get off we have not drawn it, so they did and I won, I have never won these raffles before or since.  I KNOW. I can see that my mind is like a light shining through a fog, but much of my brain is still in the fog, and everyone is in a similar state, and people who snap or argue over nothing are ill. Several years ago I read about a specialist researching Cancer, I think it was at Liverpool University, before he could finish he contracted one of the more severe forms of Cancer he asked his assistant to finish his work, as he concluded Cancer was contagious. (because of my name problem I cannot remember his name). My concerns are that either I am unique and may have caused ALL of your illnesses as I was obviously born with this problem, I know Sarcoidosis has been around for longer than my life, but I believe that originally it was in an organic form and now with antibiotics DDT etc, it is progressing, I am going to put my thoughts to the Government so if I disappear you will know why, as I said there is a lot more to my history, at age 3 I was badly bitten by a Dog, I lost a lot of blood it was all over me, but I still walked back, my mum went mad when she saw me I was holding my left arm, she franticly checked me all over, I had to shout at her to stop and I pointed to my arm as there was only one bite, she cleaned me and bandaged me it took nearly an hour before I saw a Doctor I never even went unconscious, at about 12 my older brother was hit with a brick at the back of his neck, he was pouring with blood we walked a mile back home, it didn't even slow him down, when he walked in the kitchen my mum said Hi I did not know you had a red shirt, My mum in her 40's had a miscarriage and a very bad time in hospital, she lost a great deal of blood and a priest was called and gave her the last rights, she died last year age 72 after going blind in one eye with Glaucoma and her Liver was congested.       About your points, 1-6, 1. yes tried that but as there memories are failing the more they see me, and their minds/morals are dysfunctional?. 2. No have not tried that but think I am way past it as I have already made a complaint through Government about a specialist in Sarcoidosis who would not see me-ongoing. 3.No that is a thought, but bare in mind they do not consider there is anything wrong with me, yet I could not work but am fortunate enough to be able to live off savings for a while. 4. Yes and had my notes one has me down as an hypochondriac, and someone recognized I had a liver problem some years ago, but have now removed it from my records as a mistake, no mistake. 5. Tried Derby she said she was considering pulling out of MP?. 6.No as I have been with this practice all my life and it is obvious that they all speak to each other and cover each others back. Interesting, I used to be in charge of several computer installation teams who put systems in GP Practices across most of the country, I even set up several seminars, and there is far more, PS I would rather be nuts as at least there is a chance of recovery and I would not be able to hurt anyone just by breathing. I do go on a bit, sorry

Thank you for you input Julia, I am due to see my MP next week, and I am due to see a specialist in sleep problems as this is getting worse, but the GP did say even if I am diagnosed as requiring breathing aids I will not get them as there is no money???   Oh by the way did I tell you I can see energy lines in the sunlight and sound waves from the washing machine.

A Thought, There was an author on Richard and Judy last year he was a Canadian named Adam ?   , who had cured his mother of ME Anyone know his name??

From David

jrfoutin
Research Team


Joined: Mon Aug 8th, 2005
Location: Utah USA
Posts: 4945
Status:  Offline
 Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2007 15:16
Blueberry1,

The effect of light on the Amygdala.

amygdala more info.

Best not to be looking into the sun so much.--Janet



____________________
Sarcoidosis 125D61, MP10/05 ModP2 12/05 Ph2 6/06 Ph3 10/06, NoIRs limited outings covered, 2/08 25D6.2, 10/08 25D6.9

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