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L-forms, all you need to know, 1930-1951
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  Next Page Last Page  
 

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Steve
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 Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 15:31

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melinda- on being amazed at how long ago research into L-forms took place:

     Perhaps that research was taken forward and expanded upon since then, but not in the public domain? And maybe early on someone with connections realized the enormous potential of L-forms, and a choice was made to limit public access to current R&D information. :X  



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 16:38

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Steve,
We will have no discussion along the lines of consipracy. There is no credible evidence to support conspiracy. It will not be discussed on MarshallProtocol.com, please.

Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 16:46

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LeAnne,
The Emporer Napolean once said (in French, I guess) "Never suspect a conspiracy when events could be explained by pure incompetence."

I have spent a lifetime looking from the perspectives of several generations of physicians and researchers. In this case, 'incompetence' fully explains what happenned.

First - the desire to cling to the simple "Postulates of Koch," conceived in 1898, and violated by both Syphilis and Leprosy. But they are simple, and clinical medicine has held them dear for far too long, suppressing researchers who try to 'think out of the box'.

Second, the folks in 1950-2002 didn't have the molecular insight I now have available. They didn't have the genomes. Heck, if I could have come up with this answer during my research in the late 70's, you can bet I would have done so:X

Finally, over the last 20 years, clinical medicine has gravitated to the diagnosis of disease states and distribution of medications. I don't remember it being like this in the late 1970's. Medicine has been focused on quick fixes, on proteins and vaccines, and not on underlying pathogenesis. And, unfortunately, it has failed to deliver on its promises.

VEZ R.N.
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 Posted: Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 20:27

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Dr. Marshall, Very well stated....my sentiments exactly.......

Last edited on Wed Aug 2nd, 2006 20:27 by VEZ R.N.

LeAnne
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 Posted: Thu Aug 3rd, 2006 03:42

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So, why then aren't they seeking "cure" instead of finding treatments or better ways to mangage disease? Will it take another 50 years for the idea that bacteria actually DO cause disease to be accepted?

LeAnne



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Aug 3rd, 2006 05:43

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LeAnne,
It will not take another 50 years. Every day you pick up the newpaper and read about links being found between bacteria and this, or that, disease. You read all the other old-school junk too, but the light is starting to dawn.

Jimbbb
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 Posted: Thu Aug 3rd, 2006 11:26

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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote:
 Medicine has been focused on quick fixes, on proteins and vaccines, and not on underlying pathogenesis. And, unfortunately, it has failed to deliver on its promises.

And what has happened over the last 40+ years that might have caused this shift in thinking to the quick fix.  It can be summed up in two words "Star Trek".  That is where the wonderful quick cure was produced before your very eyes (practically every week).   But as humorous as it may seem,  it represents that simplicity that all patients (and their doctors) yearn for in medicine.  "Take Two of these and see me next week for another exciting episode".

Just quickly review all these key points that Trevor and others have uncovered -- all of which are counter-intuitive.  Make the wrong decision on any one and the whole curative process comes to a halt.  

Who would think that a bacterium could hide so well in the very cells that are supposed to kill them?

Who would think that good old, always beneficial LIGHT could be detrimental to your cure?

Who would think that if killing a few bacteria is good that killing them all at once could be bad (or life-threatening)?

Who would think that you would need an ARB at a certain level BEFORE using an ABX at a certain level (and then other ABX later at a certain level)?

Who would think that if a low dose of ABX is good a higher dose would not work as well or better?

Who would think that you'd have to feel WORSE for a treatment to be effective?

Who would think that if Vit D levels are low that supplementing could not but help you feel better?

Thanks to Trevor and his merry band of MPers for sorting all these out.   A simple cure would be nice,  but if it was simple, everyone would have done it by now.

jim

 

 



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 Posted: Thu Aug 3rd, 2006 15:44

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HI JIM & ALL

This is Fred in WV. You have put up a lot of great points in your post. But I would like to say something about the second one on your list, the one about the light.

Your said, WHO WOULD THINK THAT GOOD LIGHT, ALWAYS BENEFICIAL LIGHT COULD BE DETRIMENT TO YOUR CURE? I the BENFICIAL LIGHT would not be so bad if it was not for all the fortified added vit-D to a lot of the things since the late 1940s. This includes the vitiams, foods, and medicines. It is hard to get away from all of them. I know, I was in the hospital 2 times this year and I had to explain all of this to the dietitian & the staff before I could get the right food while I was in the hospital. I was put back in the same hospital 2 weeks later but they knew who I was.

By the way, this hospital did not even carry benicar in their drug store.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in sarcoidosis

Freddie



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Aug 3rd, 2006 16:02

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It is interesting to note that, IMO, the "good healthy sunshine" concept in Western civilization sprang out of the use of sunshine in Tuberculosis sanitoriums in the early 20th century.

If you look at 19th century architecture you see lots of stone and small windows. Late 20th century architecture is all glass around a steel framework.

There are lots of lessons throughout evolution where a species has made a mistake, and only the fit have survived. Unless TPTB figure out a way of listening to our message, so that they don't have half of the US population diabetic by 2050, Darwinian theory will begin to dominate again...

ps: 'Latent Tuberculosis' is becoming endemic nowadays, no doubt caused by those organisms described in http://tinyurl.com/jkxjj and http://tinyurl.com/kcz3o

Reenie
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 Posted: Wed Aug 9th, 2006 14:06

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Trevor,

To add insult to injury, on the "good healthy sunshine" concept and TB, there used to be a community in Phoenix that had small little tiny cottage-type housing for TB patients to retreat to. (this is what I was told many yrs ago)

Some of those cottages are still standing while the area is being rebuilt.

This retreat area was used during the era of pre-residential air conditioning. :shock:

Rico
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 Posted: Sat Oct 14th, 2006 16:54

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http://www.vri.cz/docs/vetmed/51-7-365.pdf

Last edited on Sat Oct 14th, 2006 16:55 by Rico



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sat Oct 14th, 2006 17:09

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Rico,
This looks good.
I will ask Aussie Barb to move this topic over to my "all you need to know about L-forms" blog thread.

I haven't had time to look at it all, but what I read looks solid, and they actually cite Alan Cantwell, which is a biiiig plus mark in my book:)

wrotek
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 Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 07:20

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This paper has a lot of references to Dr Mattman and her book Stealth Pathogens also .
For example CWD cassification on page 3.

Last edited on Sun Oct 15th, 2006 07:21 by wrotek



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 07:43

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More specifically,
Alan sent me a list of the following colleagues/acquaintences of his (all CWD pioneers) that these Czech authors remembered to cite:

Broxmeyer
Chiodini
Csillag
Domingue
Korsak
Hans Much (of Much's granules)
Sweany

..Trevor..

AVL1984
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20th, 2006 11:18

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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote:
LeAnne,
It will not take another 50 years. Every day you pick up the newpaper and read about links being found between bacteria and this, or that, disease. You read all the other old-school junk too, but the light is starting to dawn.

This is true, Dr. Marshall. It was because of a report a month or so back on a local newschannel that I decided to check back into the MP. There was a story of a young man who was suffering from Lyme Disease, and he was wearing no IR glasses and was on a "special protocol". They would not mention the specific protocal, even when I called the station. It was being done through either St. Thomas Hospital or Vanderbilt University. All I could get was that it was "experimental". But, the variations they listed and the info on the program that night indicated the MP. They stated there were others that had "the same markers of this type of Th 1 problem" and it finally sank in for me. I had my own internal medical professional who serves as our family doctor read some of the material, and he gave it to his nurse to read. He told me he would let her decide on whether or not I needed to go forward with this. He agreed to my vitamin D levels being tested, and as of last night he had agreed to put me on benicar on a trial basis. He finally said "IF" it works...(maybe he's seeing the light?) he'd consider the possibility of trying it on others in the clinic here. Could it be he sees the link?



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20th, 2006 13:14

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I am not sure why the TV station would want to hide the fact that somebody is using the MP. We have filed applications with the FDA for designation of the MP in Chronic Lyme, there is nothing to be secretive about.

See, for example,
http://autoimmunityresearch.org/orphan-clindamycin-25jul06.pdf

Good luck with your Doc. I would be happy to chat with him if he calls.

melinda
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 Posted: Tue Oct 24th, 2006 20:20

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I am not surprised to see the very in depth paper that was submitted by Rico  being published by a veterinarian medicine research team. My family has no problem having their dogs at least treated for Lyme. Here in Fl  I was refused to be seen by about twelve  doctors, all informing me they knew nothing about the disease or that it wasn’t in Florida.

 Frustratingly I sat in the waiting room of my local Vet as a very informative video all about Lyme disease was being played on her TV to educate the animal owners. How ironic it was to me, but looking back how very lucky I was to have the doors shut in my face so many times that I became desperate to search on line for info. How lucky I am to be in the rare group here being cured by the MP. If one of those doctors had opened the door I would have been offered only higher doses of antibiotics and another round of misery.
But how sad it is that the medical community is so slow to respond or get any knowledge about  Lyme. Maybe the reason is, that dogs don’t need insurance for a treatment. Maybe the Vets will be leading the way to accept new research about CWD diseases. At least they know and accept the dogs are sick with something. My Vet is very interested in the MP research and always listens so intently about my treatment. If Benicar wasn’t so expensisve I wonder if she wouldn’t want to try it on her patients.



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norman
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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2007 07:52

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"We conclude that the evidence for the clinical significance of CWDB in disease is not compelling." - the last line in the article referenced above re: cell wall deficient bacteria.

So...what the he_ _ is that all about ?  I can't believe it ! It seems to say that either - we know they're out there but we don't think they're of much consequence to one's health, or ..we don't believe they exist . Either way...how in the world can they say that ?????

Norman

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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2007 09:24

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Norman,
In 1897 a gentleman called Koch published a set of postulates which he asserted must be fulfilled before it could be claimed that a disease was caused by a pathogen. Unfortunately, he could not forsee L-form bacteria, which are extremely difficult to culture. Unquestioning adherence to his postulates, which continues to this day, has blinded clinical medicine from properly understanding infectious disease, and especially chronic disease.

I discussed the irrelavnce of Koch's postulates in my Karolinska presentation, you can look there for more info.

All this author was saying was that, based on Koch's concepts, he/she couldn't figure out any way that these L-forms could cause disease. That is why L-forms faded into obscurity for so long. The disease processes cannot be understood by people who adhere to these 19th century pragma.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 10th, 2007 09:59

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Dr. Marshall,

You have done tremendous work and provide a valuable service to many suffering people.

The reason I came here to learn, after understanding a bit of what your perspective is, is because the things you say about the immune system were said by Dr. Hanneman and his homeopathic students 200 years ago.

I hope you do not write off Homeopathy.  There are some 10 'Miasms' considered by Homeopaths as inherited types of diseases, not just the Tubercular Miasm.  Yes, they did not have fancy scopes, but they used their heads and said the same thing about ignorant doctors that we say today.  They also had as their motivation the reduction of suffering and the actual CURE of disease.  Even on an inherited level.

I thank you and your staff for the information provided here.



____________________
IGeneX positive Lyme test, 7/06| CD-57 is 48, 11/06| Morgellons disease| Using NaCl+Vit.C, Colloidal Silver, multiminerals + Mg, Homeopathic meds: Aconitum nappelus, Silicea, Sulfur.| Looking into Marshall Protocol
(If I were to take allopathic meds.

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