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'Pea Soup' becomes a mainstream concept?
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall
 

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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12th, 2006 11:10

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There is a new paper in Science, reporting that a tiny bacterium, with only 160,000 base-pairs in the DNA of its genome, has been identified.

As a point of comparison
Mycobacterium tuberculosis has 4.4 million base pairs
Rickettsia typhi has 1.11 million bp
Borrelia burgdorferi has 1.52 million bp
Staph aureus has about 2.9 million bp

There is an easy-to-read report on the paper at URL
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061012_tiny-genome.htm

"Pre­vi­ous work, for in­stance, found that a bac­te­ri­al ge­nome could be ar­ti­fi­cial­ly pared down to mi­nus­cule sizes; but then the bug could sur­vive on­ly on the mi­cro­bi­al equiv­a­lent of life sup­port, bathed in a care­ful­ly se­lected nu­tri­ent mix. That the crea­ture could live on­ly in ar­ti­fi­cial set­tings sug­gest­ed to some that the “min­i­mal ge­nome” con­cept was a bit fuzzy"

This type of pathogen could not be cultured, unless you knew the exact balance of nutrients it needed to survive. Indeed, if you tried to seperate out cells containing this genome from a mammal then you would destroy that balance, and destroy the bacterium. In short, what is being described here is very similar to the concept that I have developed of the in-vivo pea-soup, of symbiotic, inter-dependent support between L-form pathogens.

eClaire
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 Posted: Sat Dec 16th, 2006 07:49

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Trevor,

You said: This type of pathogen could not be cultured, unless you knew the exact balance of nutrients it needed to survive. Indeed, if you tried to seperate out cells containing this genome from a mammal then you would destroy that balance, and destroy the bacterium. In short, what is being described here is very similar to the concept that I have developed of the in-vivo pea-soup, of symbiotic, inter-dependent support between L-form pathogens.

Does this mean that there is a possibility that some of the bacteria that may have long caused us problems did not survive as other bacteria invaded and potentially interacted with and changed the nutrient base?  While I have been coming up with my own lay person's understanding about why symptoms seem to wane altogether, it has not included the idea that these pathogens died because of the nutrients becoming out of balance.  I ask this because I am hoping that there is a chance that while I am very sick, I may not be quite as sick in this moment as the 40+ years of illness suggest.  Of course, only going on the journey and seeing what immunpathological symptoms arise, will give me a better idea.

Thanks, Claire



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gulfvet
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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 11:27

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e clair

they seem to express their own pedigree s?   for each  person. 



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Frans
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 Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 13:48

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Hi,

I can only read the abstract, but the gist should be clear, especially note them saying:

- hypothesize that mixtures of bacterial DNA are an important causative factor in the pathogenesis

Sound familiar?

PMID: 17320342

Sincerely, Frans



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NickBowler
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 Posted: Mon Feb 4th, 2008 03:45

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A bit more on interdependence of competing bacterial mixes here:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19726414.900-bug-slimes-surprising-effect-on-disease.html



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nbassal
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 01:20

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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: There is a new paper in Science, reporting that a tiny bacterium, with only 160,000 base-pairs in the DNA of its genome, has been identified.


There is an easy-to-read report on the paper at URL
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061012_tiny-genome.htm
Fantastic research that lends some weight to the Lforms idea and cetainly supports the theory that mitochondria where at some stage foreign to cells and have become so symbiotic that we would die without their energy production machinery. Thanks for the link. 

Last edited on Tue Feb 19th, 2008 01:25 by nbassal

Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Feb 19th, 2008 08:38

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The obvious question is why should Homo sapiens be significantly different from the insects? Why doesn't Homo sapiens have bacteriocytes?

Oh wait .. it does.. :):) The secret lies in the "vacuoles."
 

NickBowler
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 Posted: Sat Mar 7th, 2009 01:41

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It seems there may be a lot more cooperative behaviour amongst bacteria in the pea soup than was realised previously, no doubt another reason why it is so hard to eliminate:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126981.800-the-selfless-gene-rethinking-dawkinss-doctrine.html



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Cynthia S
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 Posted: Sat Mar 7th, 2009 09:13

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Thanks.  The biofilm comments on page 2 gave me an example I was looking for to answer my significant other, as he put me on the spot when I said that the organisms in biofilms cooperate.  Cynthia



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SI
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 Posted: Sun Mar 8th, 2009 19:59

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biofilms- interesting new research: Scientists Learning to Target Bacteria Where They Live

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/08/AR2009030801778.html?referrer=emailarticle

 



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kenc
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 Posted: Mon Mar 9th, 2009 09:48

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I wonder if biofilm dispersing agents such as cis-2-decenoic acid could be useful for the protocol?



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