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Babies with viral infection respond to antibiotic
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall
 

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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 08:41

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Reuters: "Babies with viral infection may respond to antibiotic"
http://tinyurl.com/ye3477
In cases of viral illnesses such as RSV, antibiotics are typically not given.
They found that children treated with clarithromycin spent significantly less time in the hospital (51 hours vs 88 hours with placebo). Time on supplemental oxygen, intravenous therapy, and bronchodilator therapy was also reduced in the antibiotic arm.

Infants who received the antibiotic were also much less likely to be readmitted to the hospital within 6 months of discharge.

Significant decreases in plasma levels of key inflammatory markers were evident after three weeks of clarithromycin.

There is no doubt that viral infections play a part in disease, but sticking blindly to the postulates of Koch (one disease, one species of pathogen) continues to blind researchers from the truth - that viral and bacterial infections each cause changes in expression and mutation of genes, and that disease must be treated as a unity, not with each symptom treated in a different manner.

Clarithromycin (Biaxin) is a macrolide which, unlike Azithromycin, does not cause a high rate of bacterial die-off, therefore less imunopathology, and therefore it is a good choice for 'stab in the dark' interventions such as this...

Frans
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 09:16

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Trevor,

I have been wondering about DNA changes. Are we talking about cellular DNA or Chromosomal DNA? As I understand it, Chromosomal DNA is the complete DNA of our whole body?

I think I read somewhere that viruses or plasmids are prone to change the chromosomal DNA? So our complete 'blueprint'?

Sincerely, Frans



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 10:07

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Only local copies of the chromosomes, those copies which are contained in the infected cell nuclei, can be mutated by intra-cellular pathogens in that cell.

Emil Wirostko was convinced that the stem cells were also infected, and that would open a can of worms, as one can no longer define stem-cell DNA as being homogenous. Infected stem cells would lead to DNA behavior which would be indistinguishable from inherited genetic mutations, as the stem cells are each supposed to have copies of the pure "inherited" DNA.

I hope this helps:)

arhayw
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 10:29

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Wow! That is profound. From what has been learned recently (one eg. the fallacious blood-brain barrier), Wirostko's stem cell suspicions seem highly probable.

I feel sorry for the chap who would prove the case.



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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 10:59

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Interesting



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Frans
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 11:22

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Nope, it didn't Trevor :D   Need to study some more :?

I always thought stem cells didn't contain DNA, which made them so useful, since they could be 'programmed' to become any cell you want.

I now see I was wrong. I just read at wikipedia that there are different sorts of stem cells all of which do contain DNA.

Now I understand that if that particular DNA is damaged/altered, we are talking about a new ballgame alltogether, since the 'source' is contaminated, so to speak.

I am reaching here, but let's say someone has a crippled leg after having polio. Let's assume the damage to the DNA is also in the stem cells, creating the crippled leg.

What would happen if our immune system kills this particular infection, leading to healthy stem cells/healthy DNA: would the crippled leg disappear ?

TIA  Frans



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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 12:11

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Frans
see these posts re healing
Muscle wasting/ Muscle Loss atrophy Meg explains how the neuropathy which was limiting movement in her feet disappeared, and muscles regained.

Grace Success regaining muscles and use.
all best, Barb ...



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Frans
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 12:21

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Thank you Barb,

This seems like, at least partly, a yes.

What I was wondering about is a post I saw flying past here on the site about eye-sight. I wear glasses and have been wondering for some time if this would disappear in time.

I guess it all depends on how fast the normal proliferation in a certain tissue is. Like nerve-cells take a long time to heal. I know that sometimes takes years, since when I was in the service around my 18th, I partly froze some toes, who were numb for more than a year after.

Sincerely, Frans



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Aussie Barb
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 12:31

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Gary eyesight improvement
Freddie Ash: great eye report 18 months of MP
Testimonials to improved vision with the MP


Will the MP treat paresthesia and neuropathy?



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Frans
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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 15:42

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Thank you Barb, where would we be without you!

Your last link set me to thinking. I have been having itches on my shoulders these last few days. I was thinking it was because my skin is drying out, since the weather here has turned cold and moisture is low. I have had problems with this in the past and steam in my house helped a lot against it. But maybe it is just our friend herx/iPath paying me a visit...


I have another question for Trevor though:


Trevor, these guys in the paper you mention are also talking about abx being immunosuppressive. We know mino does that too, hence the pulsing.

What I don't know is what mechanism does this. Is this effect maybe explained because the mino (abx) also has an effect on the human ribosomes? Or perhaps just one of the 2 ?

Sincerely, Frans



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 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 21:06

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If the stem cells were infected as Emil Wirostko suspected, wouldn't that call into question much of the genetic research that is being done that is using PCR methods with blood samples? They could be picking up variations caused by bacterial intervention? P.B.

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 Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 12:54

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A couple of months before I went on the MP I took 4 weeks of Biaxin XL and herxed like mad. After I stopped it, I felt pretty good. I have no idea what that means. I guess luckily the stab in the dark worked? Would that perhaps mean that I should use it as part of my abx combo in the future?

Anyway, I agree....Koch's postulates are hurting us.

Frans,

Have you perhaps read this post yet? Blockade of mitochondrial ribosomes

~Greg



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Frans
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 Posted: Sun Dec 24th, 2006 02:56

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Greg, Thank you !

It was exactly what I was looking for.

Best, Frans



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sun Dec 24th, 2006 11:31

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Greg,
You can try Biaxin again during Phase 3. That is the clean-up phase when you try to hit every species still remaining in your body, because at that stage you are getting very little herx from the main combo anymore.

Mind you, since we identified the current 3-abx combo it just seems to keep on working... and working... and working... :)

VEZ R.N.
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 Posted: Fri Dec 29th, 2006 19:41

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I self treated my Sarc for the last 10 yrs and I would take a round of antibiotics about every 2-3 months for a couple weeks.  My drugs of choice were Biaxin, Zith, and Levoquin.  I liked how I felt after I stopped the Biaxin and felt better for longer.  I did a few rounds of Docycycline and felt awful on that.  Glad to know others have tried Biaxin without too much harm, I have taken a lot of that over time.  VEZ

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 Posted: Wed Apr 4th, 2007 21:39

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Curious, the article http://tinyurl.com/ye3477 is no longer available. I wonder what that means?

madwolf



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Apr 4th, 2007 21:40

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It means Reuters only hold articles online for 3 months:)
Maybe somebody could chase up another link for us:) Pleeez?:)

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 Posted: Thu Apr 5th, 2007 07:03

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Clarithromycin in the treatment of RSV bronchiolitis: a double-blind, randomised, placebo-controlled trial

Babies with viral infection may respond to antibiotic

http://www.3-rx.com/ab/more/babies-with-viral-infection/

http://www.spa.gov.sa/english/cdetails.php?id=412961&catid=9

 



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