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The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > Chlorogenic Acid in Coffee is powerful Immune modulator


Chlorogenic Acid in Coffee is powerful Immune modulator
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  ...  Next Page Last Page  
 

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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 02:53

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GulfVet,
Lyrica is a "small" molecule. It is therefore very non-specific in what it targets in the body. There are tens, probably hundreds of potential targets for a molecule that small. It would be a fruitless task to try and identify all the actions of Lyrica, including all its potential adverse actions.

When I gave my "Visiting Professor" presentation at the FDA I did include several drugs other than those of most interest to us, but it takes a long time to compute this, and I have decided that "small" molecules are a waste of time. Especially when I looked at the frequency and type of adverse events the FDA was listing for Lyrica. I would never use it, and I would never recommend its use.

Sorry about that.

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 Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 07:06

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I know of the following source for much info about tobacco and ciagarettes:

UCSF's "the cigarette papers".  It contains original research the tobacco companies did a long time back, and its now been digitized.  But it does take time to wade through..I'll bet if you asked a librarian at UCSF they could help.

Sherry



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wrotek
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 Posted: Fri Feb 2nd, 2007 15:47

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Dr Marshall, do You have some new interesting Ki numbers for chlorogenic Acid to share? :) VDR, beta thyroid were high, i wonder what is ther rest.



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Ames
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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 08:17

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From the piece on Wikipedia about antioxidants...

"Studies have suggested antioxidant supplements has benefits for health, but several large clinical trials did not demonstrate a definite benefit for the formulations tested, and excess supplementation may even be harmful."

Are the chemical structures of antioxidants similar enough to suggest that an antioxidant such as vitamin C can also affect the VDR?

Most doctors tell their patients to supplement with large amts of antioxidants ( I know mine did pre-MP!). It seems your findings confirm that this idea is harmful. Am I correct?

Would you recommend that consumption of antioxidants such as vit C also be kept under a certain level?

Thanks!

Amy



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norman
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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 11:45

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So if there is a correlation of chlorogenic acid and chlorophyll in tombacco leaves, might there be that correlation to chloraphyll in other leaves (green leafy vegetables or wheatgrass- which I drink regularly)?  I hope not.

Thanks,
Norman 

Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 14:02

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Norman,
Drink? I hope you eat green leafy vegetables, and not 'drink' them. If you are using prepared supplements or food concentrates you really need to discuss them with the moderators:)

Amy,
I am not sure how one establishes that a substance is an "antioxidant." Yes, I have seen the lab test, but am not convinced they are actually doing what biologists think they are doing. My methodology is to first look at the 3D chemical structure, and match up substances by similarities of size and charge in the molecules.

the structure of ascorbic acid, for example
http://www.hmdb.ca/scripts/show_card.cgi?METABOCARD=HMDB00044.txt
is nothing like chlorogenic acid
http://www.hmdb.ca/scripts/show_card.cgi?METABOCARD=HMDB03164.txt

So why would we expect them to function as analogues of the same thing, as 'antioxidants?' Maybe they do, but I remain to be convinced...

..Trevor..

Ames
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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 16:23

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Yes Trevor what you say does indeed make a lot of sense!

After taking organic chemistry in college I got the impression that scientists DO try to classify molecules based on chemical structure, charge, size etc.

That's why I assumed that antioxidants would all possess a certain basic chemical structure that is modified in the case of each particular antioxidant.

I see now that in the case of antioxidants I am wrong. How silly that scientists/doctors have created a class of molecules that seem to have so little in common.

Thank goodness you are doing molecular modelling...your models provide the only valid feedback for my questions!

Thanks for getting back to me,

Amy

PS I will read more about antioxidants on my own. Because I have limited mental energy to spend on the computer and reading sometimes I assume things when I ask you a question. Hopefully I will make less assumptions as little by little I am once again able to read all the scientific papers my heart desires.

Last edited on Mon Feb 5th, 2007 16:28 by Ames



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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 20:33

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Amy,

Vitamin C supplementation is mentioned in this FAQ. Funny how easy it is to believe the claims re antioxidants. Vitamin C is not stored in tissues so I believed it was harmless. It was one of the hardest supplements to give up (mentally) but I'm going great without it. :)

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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 21:47

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Hi everyone,

While we are talking about ascorbic acid, I have a question about orange juice. How many cups of unfortified, real, organic, fresh orange juice per day is good to consume? I want to know what is the maximum limit for the most efficient use it's nutritional properties. I had no idea calcium doesn't occur naturally in orange juice. I'm also assuming fortification of calcium is probably not good that occurs here in the U.S.A.

What is the optimal amount of fresh, organic, unfortified, "virgin" juice and fruit in total we should be consuming? that may be a hard question to ask, but any rough ball park estimates? Our distant ancestors must have all eaten lots of fruit :? and probably started squeezing it for juice pretty quickly after we developed stone cutting tools :?. Some can't be all bad.

~Grego

 



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 Posted: Mon Feb 5th, 2007 22:17

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I had to weigh in on the calcium in the orange juice comment. 

I am becoming more and more incensed that while some (including some big business) want to regulate supplements in health food stores, big business is making all sorts of decisions about what supplements we will find in the every day foods we eat.  A matter that might best be made by ourselves or between us and our health care provider. 

As most of us know, when you suffer from a Th1 illness, lots of things that don't seem to bother other people bother us and discovering what those things are can be difficult.  It took me a long time to discover that increased intestinal distress was being caused by the then new trend to add calcium to everything.  Now, of course, it is D.  What is next?  It is so frustrating and maddening.  Perhaps this is the social issue on which I should concentrate my efforts!

Claire



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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 05:45

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Trevor,

Well, I have been drinking wheatgrass for quite some time. I believe I have mentioned that before w/o incident. It is not a "prepared supplement" as I would normally think one would be catagorized. It is just young wheat, at the grass stage ( so there is no gluten, etc). It's full of chlorophyll, etc. Basically the grass is just pressed and then you drink a small amount of it ( approx 1 oz).

Is there any suggestion here that juicing raw vegetables can be bad for you?

Thanks

Norman
Moderator add: Why do I have to stop taking supplements?

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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 05:50

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HI ALL

This is Fred in WV.  Clair said, "IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME TO DISCOVER THAT INCREASED INTESTINAL DISTRESS WAS BEING CAUSED BY THE THEN NEW TREND TO ADD CALCIUM TO EVERTHING. NOW, IT IS D.  WHAT IS NEXT?"  On the Today Show last week they had a segment about fortified foods, and they now want to add Omega-3 to a lot of foods.  Also, about a year or so ago I read in out local paper that they wanted to add potassium to everthing also. 

I agree with Clair that they should not add anything to our foods and let us make our own mind up as to get extra additives if we need they by buying it in a pill to add to our diets only if we need it.  The Today Show those people did say that we did not need the additives unless we did not have a good diet.

Also, we don't know how many out there that might have TH1 problems(additives puts all TH1 diseases at risk).  Remember, Dr Marshall told us once that the NIH started a study to see how many people had TH1 diseases and they found 50%-60% had them and they stopped the study.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in sarcoidosis

Freddie



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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 06:29

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Maybe this is why nightshades are contraindicated for RA (and presumably all AI diseases) rather than their supposed vit D content:
http://www.noarthritis.com/research.htm



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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 07:31

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Grego,

Orange juice isn't the best food from which to get vitamin C.  Just one cup of orange juice has more sugar carbs than my body can handle, and can't be a wise choice on a low carb diet.  It's the opinion of many so-called health experts, including the paleo 'experts', that fruit should only be eaten in limited quantities, because of its high sugar content, (and the fact that it wasn't available in the profusion it is now, and the fruits were smaller in paleo times), and that fruit juice is really unhealthy, because of the high concentration of sugar.  By the way even small amounts of sugars and carbs in foods like fruit, milk, grains etc. affect me, I know they are powerful chemicals.  (Doesn't matter if they're natural foods.  Granulated sugar gives me hives no more than milk sugar, or the carbs in grains.)

Besides all that, there is more vitamin C in many vegetables than there is in orange juice.  I think orange juice has only been promoted as the top food for vitamin C, because everyone is so addicted to sweet foods that it was an easier sell than broccoli.  A cup of fresh squeezed unsweetened o.j. contains 124 mg vitamin C, according to the USDA, but 1 cup of cooked broccoli contains 150 milligrams.  And, broccoli is much lower in pathogen feeding carbs.

But, take it all with a grain of salt, if you like.  One could possibly say I'm just jealous because you can eat fruit and I can't!  :D  Although, if you do the research, I think you'll find what I've said is correct.

Carol



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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 08:20

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Ah yes...it's wonderful to add vit C to the list of compounds I was told to supplement with in extreme excess amts by my doctor pre-MP. Supplement happy doctors need to be stopped. I used to eat flavored vit C tablets instead of candy..1000's and 1000's of mg a day.

Meg, since starting the MP I only comsume a small amt of vit C present in the foods I eat..and of course I have only been feeling better and better.

I was just talking to my sister and she has a cold. She is taking high levels of vit. C. I said NO!!!! The idea that vitamin C supplementation can cure a cold seems like another convention that needs to be changed.

Amy



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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 12:42

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The idea that vitamin C supplementation can cure a cold seems like another convention that needs to be changed.
But it works - why does it work?  My very healthy teenage son eats a good diet and hardly ever gets sick, but if the occasional head cold threatens he can greatly reduce or curtail it with 3gm vit C a day.  I taught him this in our some-supplements-are-good days, and it's the only supplement left in our medicine cupboard.  Please somebody, explain why it works :?

  Julia

Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 12:58

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Is it really 'a head-cold', or is it something else?

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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 13:14

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Ok....so is wheatgrass juice considered a supplement ? What about juicing raw vegetables- is that somehow considered taboo here? I would have thought it would be better for you. Does anyone know if wheatgrass juice contains any vitamin D? I have searched and not found anything to date.

Thanks,
Norman

Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 13:36

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Norman,
Please do not spend our time complaining that your progress is not as fast as you would have liked, and then turn around and make semi-sarcastic comments about "taboo." Of course wheatgrass is a supplement. It is not the food of your grandmother (as Meg so aptly puts it). Similarly, juicing vegetables can increase the concentrations of individual ingredients to a level which your body cannot handle.

norman
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 Posted: Tue Feb 6th, 2007 17:08

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Didn't mean to sound sarchastic...I just could not understand how a raw food could be considered a supplement. I have read here over and over that we should eat raw foods preferably, and organic as well if possible. So, I have tried to to that. I have talked previously to some of the moderators here and have recently stopped taking a protein powder because of that. I guess I was just a bit confused. Sorry to use the word taboo here. I was wondering, however, if juicing vegetables was ok or not. I guess it is not. Again, sorry to offend. Thanks


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