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The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > Chlorogenic Acid in Coffee is powerful Immune modulator


Chlorogenic Acid in Coffee is powerful Immune modulator
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  ...  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  ...  Next Page Last Page  
 

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Joy
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 17:40

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I was about to jump in here to recommend people suffering coffee and tea withdrawals try the Celestial Seasonings Caffeine-Free Tea substitute. Really tastes like proper English black tea when doctored with a dab of honey and D-free milk. I've been enjoying it almost nightly for awhile now.

But examining the ingredients I am horrified to see hawthorn berries right in there as one of the main ingredients. The foods list says hawthorn is not advisable while on the MP. Dr. D'Adamo (the Eat Right 4 Your Blood Type Diet naturopath) says hawthorn is the most beneficial herb for Type A's (which I am), and he cannot recommend it highly enough. I wonder why it doesn't work on the MP? Any insights?

Oh well, so that goes in the bin along with everything else now.



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Began Ph 1 9/06, Phase 2 1/07. Stopped abx 11/07; stopped Benicar 5/09. 25D: 32,17,5,4,4
tickbite
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 18:13

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Joy,

I'm sure you already know this, but I don't think it's the caffeine per-se in tea and coffee but the chlorogenic acid.



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Bella
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 19:42

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So what is the word on Stevia? I cannot use splenda. Jeannine



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Joy
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 20:05

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Tickbite,

Yes, I know that. This is just something I've used as a substitute for some years now because I can't tolerate caffeine. For a good 20 years I've gotten rapid pulse and heartbeat from it. Even 1/4 cup Starbucks decaf will keep me up till 4 a.m. I've never known why before, but my mother is also equally sensitive to it.

Funny, though, as I used to handle it just fine when I was younger. About 20 years ago I started to not be able to handle it (concurrent with the onset of RA and other Th1 illnesses -- coincidence??)



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Began Ph 1 9/06, Phase 2 1/07. Stopped abx 11/07; stopped Benicar 5/09. 25D: 32,17,5,4,4
IngeD
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17th, 2007 20:17

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Hi Jeanninehope: here is more info
Sugar Substitutes on stevia and other substitutes. Neither Stevia nor Splenda are contraindicated on the MP. Regards, Inge.



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MP start Jan'07 | Rickettsiosis, gastric ulcers, peripheral neuropathy, chronic bronchitis, adhesions/IBS/Crohn's, pre-diabetes, hypertension | initial 125D=51, 25D=26 | last 25D= 8.4 ng/mL Mar '11 |9.2 ng/ml Feb 12
wrotek
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 06:24

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Maybe decaf has some caffeine in it after all ?

Withdrawal is from caffeine, so i don't understand really using any caffeine free substitutions to decrease withdrawal symptoms.



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 07:33

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Wrotek.
No, withdrawal is from anything your body (or mind) has become dependent upon. For example, one's body has withdrawal symptoms from prednisone, and one needs to wean very slowly...

Similarly, one would need to withdraw from Chlorogenic Acid, if one had been ingeting it in sufficient concentrations to have been suppressing the immune system...

tickbite
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 07:36

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Wrotek,

I'm not so sure withdrawal is solely from the caffeine. Obviously the CGA was sort-of modulating your herx too. Which would mean that the withdrawal symptoms for Th1 sufferers would be a tad more than usual :) I couldn't imagine what those pots of coffee some of us were drinking was doing to their recovery progress......



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wrotek
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 08:58

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Very interesting idea that chlorogenic acid can so be addictive :). I wonder if it is addictive to healthy people as well.

It would explain why people trying to quit coffee, switch to decaf.

Last edited on Wed Apr 18th, 2007 09:00 by wrotek



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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 09:43

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there is also the taste thing! If you like coffee but want to give up caffeine then decaf at least still has the taste...nothing else is quite like it....hot chocolate is too sweet and herbal teas are just not the same...neither are the herbal coffees...unfortuantely doesn't help us.....they don't  make caffeine free and cga free and probably by the time that is extracted you won't recognise the taste anymore :D Inge.



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MP start Jan'07 | Rickettsiosis, gastric ulcers, peripheral neuropathy, chronic bronchitis, adhesions/IBS/Crohn's, pre-diabetes, hypertension | initial 125D=51, 25D=26 | last 25D= 8.4 ng/mL Mar '11 |9.2 ng/ml Feb 12
Bella
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 11:36

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Thanks Inge for the link....However I was referring to the content of Chlorogenic Acid in Stevia as it is from a plant...Guess I should have been more specific...but the link helped

I know things in moderation are ok....but just wanted to see if anyone else had anything to say about the Chlorogenic Acid level in Stevia....

I found a scienific article but I dont have access to it...

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j2573u7341495341/

....I did find this on the web...

http://www.rain-tree.com/stevia.htm

I guess with the amount of steiva on would use that it might not really matter??

Just interesting......Jeannine



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tickbite
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 12:36

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It's called water people, dang! :) haha. Someone has always gotta be trying to drink something other than water! It's only temporary!



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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 14:54

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Joy,

Folks are advised not to take hawthorn supplements because they might lower blood pressure. I doubt the amount of hawthorn in a cup of tea is enough to be of concern. :)

Joy
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18th, 2007 21:57

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Thanks, Meg. I may continue with it, then, just occasionally. It gives your mind and taste-buds the feeling of drinking something like real tea, and I do miss my English tea. Probably wouldn't do much physically for a caffeine/CA withdrawal, but at least you're drinking something similar this way and don't feel quite as deprived.

The ingredients are:

Blackberry leaves
roasted chicory root
hawthorn berries
beet root
natural tea flavor
hibiscus flowers

Hopefully the blackberry leaves are okay? Someone said blackberries may contain chlorogenic acid, hopefully not the leaves?



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 Posted: Sat Apr 21st, 2007 12:06

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And apples too?!!  Dang.

Dody



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Martha
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2007 11:54

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Is garlic safe??? We eat lots of it in our family. Hubby's cholesterol is a bit high and he won't take statins. His dad had heart problems his whole life (well from his  30's on). I've heard that garlic is great for heart disease.

Much thanks,

Martha

mercuryspice
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2007 19:27

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i'm getting confused by reading all of this.  Will a few cups of coffee a week interfere with  my progress on the MP?  It helps to keep me awake when I need to do something.  What does it do to the 1,25 d level?

thanks lisa



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22nd, 2007 19:57

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A few cups a week is fine. Two cups a day is marginal:) A few cups every day might be a problem:)

mercuryspice
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 Posted: Mon Apr 23rd, 2007 13:20

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thanks so much for simplifying it for me.  Sometimes my lyme brain can't understand all of the science stuff :)

lisa



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wrotek
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 09:35

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Greg found this really interesting study :)

Caffeine decreases vitamin D receptor protein expression and 1,25(OH)2D3 stimulated alkaline phosphatase activity in human osteoblast cells.
http://tinyurl.com/2dzdn7

"Caffeine dose dependently decreased the 1,25(OH)(2)D(3) induced VDR expression and at concentrations of 1 and 10mM, VDR expression was decreased by about 50-70%, respectively."

Last edited on Mon Apr 30th, 2007 09:35 by wrotek



____________________
Lyme reflux chronic pain fatigue depression 125D36 Ph1Sep05 Ph2Oct06 Ph3Apr07 in low lux NoIRs 25D<7 Oct06

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