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Amy Proal's "Bacteriality.com"
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  ...  Next Page Last Page  
 

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Rico
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 Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 17:48

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Amy, I use Firefox 2.0.0.11 and have seen no performance problems.



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Joyful
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 Posted: Sun Jan 27th, 2008 18:12

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As always, excellent work Amy! :cool:

I don't have any performance trouble with Firefox + Cable high-speed internet. :)

I don't know if it is Firefox or that in combination with using [ctrl]+ to increase the font size, but some of the photo titles are partly covered by the article's body text. :?



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Frans
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 Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 11:58

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Frans wrote: I was thinking and came to the following. These guys couldn't culture several bacteria that are normally cultivable, but found them with the PCR.

Now, wouldn't it be nice to let those samples be examined by Alan Cantwell, or one of the others mentioned on Amy's site, with electron microscopy or acid fast staining to see if they can find these elusive bacteria?

Of course this would have to be done blind. They get samples without knowing what is supposed to be there, do their thing, hand over their findings that are then cross referenced with the PCR results to see if their methods close the gap between 'normal culturing' and PCR naalysis?

Could that be done? Trevor, could the university you are an honorary professor of play a role in such an endeavour? As I understand it, the Gates foundation has funded a PCR lab?

This could finally and definitely build a bridge between L-form bacteria, the specialists that know they exist and the rest of the medical world... It would be great to finally see these pioneers validated

Sincerely, Frans


Hi,

There is something else on my mind concerning this. A lot of studies are being done on cancerous cell-lines from all sorts of cancer. Now if we want to prove cancer is bacterial, wouldn't it be a good idea to take those cancer cells, grind them up and use PCR to see what is in there?

Just a thought,

Frans



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 Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 12:53

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When you 'grind up' phagocytes the lysosomes will destroy any intra-cytoplasmic bacteria.
 

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 Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 13:23

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Hmm, so grinding doesn't work :)  I see I must study again on how PCR analysis of cells actually works :?

Frans



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 Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 13:42

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Frans,
I know how to do it. We already have a 'deal' with the Human Genome project to do the sequencing of single cells. I just need a team of post-docs and a lab to do all the hard work :X
 

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 Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 18:30

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Perhaps we could wake up these guys to this idea?

- PMID: 16688821

But then again, I guess the main thing is budget... and this is not exactly a 'mainstream' idea where they will line up with bags full of money...  pff, this could really really stir up things...  Relman perhaps?

This all reminds me of HeLa cell contamination. I am re-reading Alan Cantwell's books who explained how that happened.

Sincerely, Frans



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 Posted: Fri Feb 8th, 2008 19:25

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Dave Relman's group has the capability. Given the money I am sure they could get results in just a few months, we could take several years to piece all the technologies together. I spoke with Dave at Metagenomics 2007, and he now knows about the microbiota. To date he has expressed no interest in it, or our work. Stanford is driven by money, I guess...
 

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 Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 14:45

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Have you talked to any evolutionary biologists/microbiologists not affiliated with medical establishments about potential collaboration? My hunch is that there would be a lot less politics and lot more interest in the basic biology of L-forms, such as molecular biodiversity and life history, coming from this group of researchers (Woese tradition). Furthermore, nowadays they are all equipped with good molecular facilities. Maybe someone could be tempted to conduct a pilot study using in house post-docs and/or advanced graduate students and internal funding, which could then be used as a stepping stone towards obtaining the level of funding required to take those sorts of projects to the next level (NIH/NSF). I know, it would take time, but that is how these things are usually done, as the major funding sources are extremely conservative and only fund projects for which the results are already known! (you have probably heard Venter talk/complain about this). My concern is that medical researchers will not see L-forms as a research priority until there are solid, preliminary MOLECULAR studies demonstrating presence and genetic affiliations for CWD's, hence potential medical implications, and I can only see these initial studies coming from biologists interested in organismal diversity and basic biology :(



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 Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 15:03

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Unfortunately, PCR is not quite good enough for the sequencing we need. Murdoch has the latest PCR machines, but we need the capabilities of the Human Genome folks at DOE. I spoke with them, and with many other groups at Metagenomics 2007...
 

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 Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 17:48

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Speaking of Stanford... has anybody else seen this?  Maybe I'm just easily amused, but I just couldn't keep from laughing out loud!  Glad I wasn't in the audience!  :)

http://med.stanford.edu/medcast/2008/vitamind.html



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 Posted: Sat Feb 9th, 2008 21:43

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The Stanford doc mentions this med called Asentar - a 50-100X dose of Vit D used for advanced cancer therapy. At least they seem to allow that the trials are not going so well. 

Asentar for prostate cancer, a potential blockbuster

Men's Health News

Published: Wednesday, 24-Jan-2007

A tablet designed to emulate the healing power of the sun could be available for the treatment of advanced prostate cancer as early as 2009.
But it remains to be seen whether the drug will be the revolution in prostate cancer care that its makers claim.

The drug, Asentar (DN-101), is based on vitamin D and is given to patients in the advanced stages of prostate cancer along with chemotherapy drugs. Drug makers came up with the idea because vitamin D from sunlight improves the prognosis of certain cancers. But taking natural levels of the vitamin has no effect. Novacea, the company that makes Asentar, produced a novel formulation that reproduces the healing effect without the dangerous side-effects of a vitamin D overdose. If the on-going phase III trial goes to plan, the new drug should be available in 2009, reports Chemistry & Industry, the magazine of the SCI.

'If the results of the phase III trial are as good as those of the phase II trial, that would be significant,' says Nick James, professor of oncology at the University of Birmingham. In the phase II trials, Asentar significantly improved survival rates, 9 months over patients taking chemotherapy drugs (taxotere) alone. 'On average, patients in the advanced stage of the disease survive about 18 months, so an extension of 9 months would be very significant in my view,' says James.

Asentar provides levels of vitamin D 50-100 times higher than normal. Patients would be expected to take one tablet once a week with their weekly regime of taxotere for three weeks out of every four.

Business analysts say Asentar is a potential blockbuster, because prostate cancer rates are expected to soar in the next few years. But James is not so sure. 'A confounding factor is that if you go looking for more cases of cancer, you will find them. But this does not give you an accurate estimate of how many people will go on to develop advanced disease. In fact death rates are going down, which means that the market for this drug is probably pretty static.'

James also points out that it is far from certain that the Phase III trials will repeat the success of early trials. 'The phase II trial used a less than optimal taxotere regime so the survival rate may have been artificially inflated,' he says. He points out, however, that it may be that the Asentar will eventually prove applicable in the earlier stages of the disease.

Prostate cancer is the second leading cause of cancer death in men. Prostate cancer kills one man every hour in the UK.



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migsies
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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 10:08

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Just an observation concerning the Stanford presentation...

1) Throughout the talk he touts the therapeutic benefits of 1,25D (calcitriol) yet the slide headings are "Vitamin D:...". This is a bit sloppy and misleading to the lay person, who might confuse vitamin D (25D) supplementation with 1,25D (or analog) administration. This sort of innatention to detail would be bad form in a biochemistry department and should be considered bad form in a medical department, perhaps even more so, given the health implications. I know, this seems a bit petty, but how will the huge misconceptions about "vitamin D" portrayed in the media ever be rectified when the "experts" don't use the correct terminology, with consistency.

And some legitimate questions (mostly rhetorical?)...

2) Are the genetic mutations he associates with "vitamin D metabolic dysfunction" commonly seen among folk with the multitude of conditions that he cites or is his assessment based on mouse or other models?

3) Is there an absolute relationship between these mutations and levels of dysfunction or merely a statistical correlation, meaning, a substancial number of folk with some subset of these mutations have no disease? In which case, is it possible that these mutations merely constitute predisposing factors, perhaps by creating just enough immune suppression to favor L-form colonization and further suppression?

Of course, the role of infection in precipitating and accelerating innate immune dysfunction, via VDR suppression, and the implications for disease are missing from the discussion. But this is no surprise as the "Marshall pathogenesis" is cutting edge science.

Maybe Dr. Marshall will chime in at some point with some pearls of wisdom. Then again, he may be tired of feeling like he is beating a dead horse.;)



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 Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 10:26

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Then again, he may be tired of feeling like he is beating a dead horse

Yup. True.
An eminent 80yo (approx) UK physician wrote a letter in answer to my BioEssay, arguing cogently that 25-D was a better marker than 1,25-D. Not once in the letter did the words "gene" or "VDR" appear, and she was stuck in the concepts of a first-order metabolism, totally ignoring the complexities in my Figure 1. These folk have a lot of un-learning to do, as well as needing training in precision of thought.

I declined to answer the letter, as this physician is a well known advocate of supplementation in the UK, and she has spent her life in the service of mankind. What could I say? I didn't want to be cruel, and, in any case, you can't teach an old dog new tricks :X
 
Oh - as for mutations - where do they come from? Caused by the pathogens, of course... Some may just be due to DNA 'noise' arising when genes are being sequenced, when genes are pasted together, even though they don't come from the target organism (Homo sapiens). Not real 'mutations', in that latter case...
 
 

Last edited on Sun Feb 10th, 2008 10:34 by Prof Trevor Marshall

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 Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 21:36

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Hi,

I'll just jump into the middle of this discussion to let you know that I just put up an interview with evolutionary biologist Paul Ewald on Bacteriality:

http://bacteriality.com/2008/02/11/ewald/

We discuss how if you approach chronic diseases from an evolutionary viewpoint, they simply must be caused by pathogens.  If chronic diseases were genetic in origin they would have been eliminated from the population long ago.  Right on Dr. Ewald!

Best,

Amy



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migsies
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12th, 2008 00:35

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Thanks Dr. Marshall and Amy. FWIW, I agree, most mutations are probably a byproduct of the host-pathogen arms race, however, I also suspect that every so often some of these mutations, if they occur in the germline, make it to the next generation, where they become the subject of evolutionary processes. On an optimistic note, this is probably a very rare event and manifests very early on in life, compared to the ravages of pathogen induced ageing (Th1), which affects all of us, albeit in unique ways, and can now be tackled with the MP.

Anyway, I was curious about the claims in the Stamford presentation that those particular mutations were resonsible for the observed effects on vitamin D metabolism because my understanding is that genetic loci are frequently polymorphic without obvious effects on genetic "fitness" (succeptibility to disease). I suspect there are many instances where the quest to explain away disease leads us to misinterpret neutral, inoquous mutations, as causal, when it is the effect of host-pathogen interactions on gene regulation and the heritability of these pathogens that is at the root of the problem. Perhaps that is the case here.:)



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 Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2008 11:26

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Interesting observations Migsies...

Just posting quickly to let you know there is now an interview with MP patient Melinda Stiles on Bacteriality.

http://bacteriality.com/2008/02/17/interview16/

Melinda was exposed to myriad pathogens over the course of her life and has done an excellent job of killing them with the MP.  Another compelling recovery story.....

Best,

Amy



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 Posted: Sun Feb 17th, 2008 11:42

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:) Another awesome interview Amy!

Thanks for keeping the inspiration coming! :)



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 Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 14:05

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Thank YOU Joyful for being such an avid reader of my pieces! 

I put up a new piece today.  It's called "Top 14 misconceptions about the MP: addressed and explained"

http://bacteriality.com/2008/02/23/misconceptions/

I receive a lot of emails from people looking into the MP who always have similar concerns about the treatment.  I've also posted in numerous discussion forms where people are confused about some of the major tenets of the MP.  I find myself addressing the same questions again and again - is Benicar safe?  What if my blood pressure drops?  Why can't I take supplements? 

Or concerns like, But doctor Marshall isn't a medical doctor, so how can I take him seriously? Or, when will a double-blind placebo controlled study be done on the MP? Or, "I heard the MP made somebody feel worse! (as if that's not something to be expected)." Or, "The MP must not be working because my kidney blood tests are out of range!", etc.

There are answers to all these concerns and usually people's worries are unwarranted or their views are based on incomplete information.  Those issues are what this piece attempts to address.

Obviously I got a lot of information for this piece off this study site, so as I say in the introduction, I'd like to thank Belinda and Meg for compiling a great deal of the information that I used in the first place.

Best,

Amy



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 Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 14:37

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Hi Ames (and Paul)

Very good...very useful.

Your website is rapidly becoming the site of choice when I direct people who want to know more about the MP and the diseases they suffer from.

Well done

Cheers

Guss



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