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In what environments do CWD bacteria survive?
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall
 

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inge
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 02:47

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Hi,

Somewhere on this site (the page seems to have been removed) I read that vaccines could harbour CWD-bacteria, and could be one route of transmission. This appears to be in conflict with what is stated elsewhere on this site:


"All you can detect with PCR testing are those bacteria which are being killed. It is not possible to identify the species which are most successful, because they are not being killed by the immune system, so there are no antibodies, very few RNA fragments, and so they are not detectable. The bacteria are so nicely nestled inside the monocytes/macrophages that PCR will not be able to detect their presence unless the cell membrane is disrupted in some way. After disruption it is likely that the cyto-skeletons will no longer protect the CWD and their RNA may be fragmented/mutated/destroyed by the lysosomal contents. PCR typically looks for small, characteristic, fragments of the 16S RNA.

The antibodies you can find in the blood are the pathogens which have been unsuccessful - the ones that are killed by the immune system. The pathogens which cause sarcoidosis, and indeed (IMO) all Th1 disease, do not appear in antibody assays.

Biopsy testing doesn't usually work because the bacteria are destroyed when you take them out of the body; their homeostasis is destroyed and the cytokines in the immune system kill them."



Any details I am missing?

Inge



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 03:19

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Inge,
Most of the information you need is in Emmy Kleinberger-Nobel's paper, and the other citations in the thread at
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum39/6844.html

Please also look at the Capnine thread, as it cites other papers which are relevant to a full understanding.
http://www.marshallprotocol.com/forum39/9348.html

Human blood is a totally different environment from a vaccine. When a vaccine hits the bloodstream the immune system is faced with a number of challenges, not just that of an isolated bacterial pathogen. The two cases you cite are two totally different environments.

My understanding of the pathogens has not remained static, as you can see when comparing the two threads I referenced above, but I think you can find the answers you are seeking there, and not have to delve into the more complex issues at this point.

..Trevor..
 

inge
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 Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 03:36

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Thanks!

Inge



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 Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 12:24

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I believe the 'missing' information you referred to is in this FAQ Should I get the flu shot/vaccines/TB test?

Frans
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 08:54

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"All you can detect with PCR testing are those bacteria which are being killed


Hm, this opens up an interesting route of investigation, perhaps sometime in the future?

One could try PCR or other bacterial RNA testing one a month or something like that, just to see what fragments of bacterial RNA show up. Of course the blood should be taken when one is herxing. Probably a bit expensive, but I think I read Trevor stating somewhere that he is in contact with a hospital to work together.

It would be interesting to see all sorts of different bacteria showing up time after time :cool:

Just a thought.

Sincerely, Frans

PS  I will check to see if my insurance covers the right kind of testing (PCR probably ?) so I can be guinea pig number one :)



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 09:29

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All you can detect with PCR testing are those bacteria which are being killed
This is not strictly correct. I was trying to say that the bacteria living within the monocytes and macrophages can't be detected.

When the cells die (apoptosis or phagocytosis), or when the bacteria leave the cells, it might be possible to see them at that point with PCR, which is sensitive enough these days to detect just a few organisms.

Of course - a problem is that you have to be using a PCR probe sequence which is general enough to find the exotic species of biofilm-dwelling bacteria which have been reported:)


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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2008 18:30

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Today I discovered Google's new Beta, Google Scholar.
Just for fun, the first search I tried was CWD bacteria.

Top hit was Dr. Marshall's "Sarcoidosis succumbs to antibiotics" and of course, Mattman, Cantwell, Koch were on the first page as well.

I laughed to see that the number two hit was from "Veterinary Microbiology" because of the recent dialog about the cows having a disease like Crohn's disease, but caused by bacteria (not autoimmune, like the human doctors think).

Fun searches ahead! :)



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