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migsies
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I was intrigued by the following excerpt from immunesupport.com on ongoing research in the Faustman lab and thought others here might find it interesting:

"...a commonly used vaccine that provides protection against tuberculosis, called Bacillus Calmette-Guerin (BCG) was used effectively to deplete the abnormal immune cells that attack and destroy the insulin producing cells of the pancreas." (caveat: Study carried out in mice)

I wonder if these researchers have considered that their findings are consistent with the notion that these so called "abnormal" immune cells might be infected by L-forms (as would be predicted by MP theory). I would like to know what they mean by "abnormal" immune cells. Perhaps it is mentioned in the primary literature but my brian is not up to dredging up and sorting through those papers at this time. It seems to me that if these cells are infected they could be displaying L-form antigens (bacterial "soup" antigens) that become targets for the increased TB antibody response triggered by the vaccination. I wonder if they are considering this hypothesis and exploring it further? Perhaps Dr. Marshall will know.
:)

Prof Trevor Marshall
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It is well documented, over several decades, that the BCG vaccine causes Sarcoidosis, eg
"Juvenile sarcoidosis after BCG vaccination (2006)"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12734491

"Juvenile sarcoidosis after BCG vaccination (1989)"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2602688

"Incidence of Intrathoracic Sarcoidosis among young adults participating in a trial of Tuberculosis vaccines (1965)"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14321221

The use of BCG vaccine has been banned in several countries , as being unsafe.

Its use in Diabetes is not even a new idea, having been first mooted in 1991
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1833072

Anybody who is researching the use of live vaccines, and who doesn't know about the terrible track record of BCG, needs to have their researchers' licenses stripped from them, in my opinion.
 

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Joined: Fri Jul 9th, 2004
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Oh - Diabetes is a Th1 disease. It is caused when monocytes and macrophages permeate the outer tissues of the pancreas and shut down production of insulin, and then inulin. Although we don't have confirming clinical data yet, I have little doubt that as folk recover on the MP, their Diabetes will also vanish.
 

Kas
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Joined: Wed Dec 8th, 2004
Location: Markham, Ontario Canada
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Trevor,

I believe you could well be correct about the diabetes.

Pre MP, I was diagnosed as being 'pre diabetic' and my sugar levels were always on the cusp of diabetes, or slightly above it. I have a strong family history of diabetes and also had gestational diabetes in the final months of my pregnancy with my second child, which vanished after giving birth. The pre diagnosis came around the same time as my sarc was discovered.

Since being on the MP - even with my slower than usual progress and lower than usual abx usage- I have noticed that my sugar levels are always in the normal range. I am pretty careful with my diet, but certainly not perfect, and lately, I have done no formal exercise, but still, my sugar levels remain really good.

I can only credit my good levels with the MP and hope that I will be able to completely avoid becoming diabetic in my lifetime because of it.

migsies
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Thanks Trevor, great news Kas. Yes, trading one problem (diabetes) for a host of others down the road (sarc and possibly other Th1 conditions) as a consequence of the BCG vaccine sounds like a pretty bad idea and a bit short sighted. Incidentally and FWIW, I was one of those people who were vaccinated with BCG as a child (and the early polio vaccine), as I suspect many others were who visit this site regularly, and here I am today, in good company but not exactly a picture of good health! Curiously, I noticed my health take a sharp turn for the worse after a round of MMR vaccine back in the early nineties. I guess once you are immunosuppressed with Th1 it is not such a great idea to be receiving supposedly attenuated but nevertheless live vaccinations.

trevorharris
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Joined: Thu Oct 21st, 2004
Location: Aldershot, United Kingdom
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Just come across this paper which demonstrates that BCG
bacilli can convert to cell wall deficient forms(Lforms)
inside resting or pre- activated macrophages
in vivo suggests that this phenomenon could
significantly enhance BCG survival and persistence
ability.

http://nadya.markova.googlepages.com/BCGpublication.pdf

Could this have some significance to the BCG vaccine.

Actually Nadya's web site is very interesting.

http://nadya.markova.googlepages.com

Last edited on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 08:57 by trevorharris



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