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Prof Trevor Marshall
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Stevia sweetener has always been an enigma for me, as I couldn't really find any brand which tasted good both in my hot tea and chocolate. 'Super Stevia' liquid came closest for chocolate, but it changed the taste of my tea.

A new brand has appeared on my local supermarket shelves, "Stevia in the raw," $3.50 per box of 50 packets.

http://www.steviaextractintheraw.com/

Containing dextrose, it is not pure Stevia extract, but it does the job of sweetening drinks very well, without any (significant ) added calories. Indeed, half a packet seems plenty for standard size teacups.
 
Especially since there seems to now be a cloud hanging over Splenda, I suggest you give 'Stevia in the raw' a try :):)
 

Freddie Ash
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HI ALL

This is Fred in WV.  Not too long ago I switched from Splenda to TRUVIA.  It tasted better than the other form of Stevia, ONLY SWEET at Krogers.  I got my Truvia at Walmart, 80 packets for $6.12 or 40 for $3.68.

The Truvia does not taste like I described as leafey at the Autoimmune Support Group meetings. I think it is the best I have found for me.  Thanks Dr Marshall for the info.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis

Freddie

Wojta
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Especially since there seems to now be a cloud hanging over Splenda, I suggest you give 'Stevia in the raw' a try

Hello Dr.Marshall,
may I ask what is this cloud over Splenda? I started using it (although very occassionally - max. 2-3 pills per week) after recommendation on this site, so is there something bad about it? Should I try to get Stevia for my low-carb diet instead of Splenda?
Thank you.



eClaire
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Hmmm...splenda has always affected my stomach/intestines just like the rest of the fake sugars, though, I can use just a smidgen without complaint in black tea (unlike the others). 

I've found just a few drops of liquid stevia good in green tea (but not black) cold or hot and in hot or cold tea made from ginger and lime juice.  I found that I started off with more drops and disliking the taste and being able to wean down to fewer drops and liking the taste more as my body adjusted to less sweet.

Stevia in the raw sounds interesting; Stevia packets that I tasted in the past were down right disgusting and thrown out without more than one trial.  Thanks for the link and tip!!!

Claire

Sondles
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What "cloud over splenda"?

Prof Trevor Marshall
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It changed the expression of CYP3A4 in mice:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18800291
 
In mice, but still hard to discount. A well performed study, as far as I can tell from the text :)
 
(CYP3A4 is a key enzyme in the immune system -> it is in my Bioessay Figure 1:))

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Thank you Dr. Marshall>

Sondles

Cynthia S
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Is there anything in these investigations,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18800291

 that would give a clue as to why Splenda is very effective in raising my blood sugar?  Cynthia

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Is it reco'd now that we not use Splenda? I've been drinking quite a bit of diet soda sweetened with it(100-120 oz soda daily),without noticing any side effects at all.I feel better drinking soda with Splenda than I do with Nutrasweet,FWIW and it tastes so much better too.

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Sam,
Splenda is OK in moderation, such as in  the amounts you would get in soda. Do try the 'Stevia in the Raw' though, it is pretty good :)
 

Barney
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QUILLAIA, is one of the ingredients in diet MUG root beer. I looked it up and it is from the bark of the soapbark tree. I researched it a little to find that too much of this can cause liver damage. How much is too much?

It is hard to find sodas here with Spenda in them so I do drink some nutrasweet ones but they have started adding accesumfame K, so do not know how much nutrasweet is now in them.

When I moved to Deming 14yrs ago, you could by accesumfame K in our local grocery but since the 'big boys' have started using it, I can not find it. It does really sweeten stuff and there was no aftertaste. I looked it up too, but don't remember what it said it was made from.

I stick by my old standbys....sweet/low and stevia together, always sweet, never bitter....been doing this for several years now, I always worry about my 1 kidney with this stuff.

I tried the new Truvia, but wasn't too impressed.

HANG IN THERE, WE WILL MAKE IT!!!BARNEY:D

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Barney,
A box of "Stevia in the Raw" is winging its way to you :):) Watch your mailbox :)
 

Barney
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Very sweet of you Trevor. THANKS!!!

HANG IN THERE, WE WILL MAKE IT!!!BARNEY:D

Cynthia S
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Both my significant other and I can get some pretty bad flatulence from acesulfame potassium.  I have noticed less of this effect lately, but I am not sure if I am changing, or manufacturers are using it in smaller quantities.  Cynthia

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Interesting new article on the ACS website showing the use of array technology to distinguish sweeteners.

The diagram at:

http://web.1.c2.audiovideoweb.com/1c2web3536/Sweetenerdetector.jpg
 
shows that Stevia has little in common with other sweeteners, which is kinda interesting.
 
 

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I'm not sure what the dots all mean, but it seems to have a very light "footprint" that most closely matches the refined "Domino Sugar" pattern.

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Right, except for the bright green sucrose spot :) :) Maybe somebody could grab the fulltext for me and look into what substances give rise to those dots. I am busy on other stuff at the moment :X
 

Barney
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Trevor,

Since I have been an avid user of Stevia and Sweet and Low, and have tried all of the others, I sent the test people an email asking for clarification of the different colors of dots/what they mean.

Will advise when I get answer.

HANG IN THERE, WE WILL MAKE IT!!!!BARNEY:D

Cynthia S
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This is a case where common use could possibly change food as we know it.  If they miss a few subtle/low concentration chemicals, these chemicals would soon be ignored, and all foods would start to taste standardized, much as we would expect if food was created synthetically.  An example might be vanillin, a synthetic vanilla, where all vanillin tastes the same, but real vanilla has the possibility of being from different species of the Vanilla orchid plant (orchids are my interest), or from different locals with variations in climate/soil/humidity.  Cynthia 

Joyful
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Cynthia,

That is an interesting comment.

I love organic vanilla extract. Tastes 'right' to me.

And, if I had a serious weakness, it would be for the particular type of cinnamon (makara) used to make Cinnabon rolls (good thing I don't visit the malls where they have their stores, I'd be filling my face with them every time).

Frans
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Trevor,

I think I found it on pubmed, but the paper is behind a "pay-me-first"-wall.

A colorimetric sensor array for detection and identification of sugars.
Lim SH, Musto CJ, Park E, Zhong W, Suslick KS.
Department of Chemistry, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 600 South Mathews Avenue, Urbana, Illinois 61801, USA.

Molecular recognition of sugars and a practical method to detect and discriminate among a large number of such similar analytes remain substantial scientific challenges. We report here a low-cost, simple colorimetric sensor array capable of identification and quantification of sugars and related compounds. Fifteen different monosaccharides, disaccharides, and artificial sweeteners were differentiated without error in 80 trials. Limits of detection at pH 7.4 for glucose were <1 mM, which is below physiologically important levels.

PMID: 18783231 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

They published another paper along the same lines:

Chemically responsive nanoporous pigments: colorimetric sensor arrays and the identification of aliphatic amines.
Bang JH, Lim SH, Park E, Suslick KS.
School of Chemical Sceinces, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Urbana, IL 61801, USA.

A general method has been developed for the preparation of microspheres of nanoporous pigments, their formulation into chemically responsive pigment inks, and the printing of these inks as colorimetric sensor arrays. Using an ultrasonic-spray aerosol-gel synthesis from chemically responsive dyes and common silica precursors, 16 different nanoporous pigment microspheres have been prepared and characterized. New colorimetric sensor arrays have been created by printing inks of these chemically responsive pigments as primary sensor elements; these arrays have been successfully tested for the detection, identification, and quantitation of toxic aliphatic amines. Among 11 structurally similar amines, complete identification of each analyte without confusion was achieved using hierarchical cluster analysis (HCA). Furthermore, visual identification of ammonia gas was easily made at the IDLH (immediately dangerous to life or health), PEL (permissible exposure limits), and 0.1 PEL concentrations with high reproducibility.

PMID: 18950204 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Also pay-me first ...

Perhaps they can make one for capnine or other biofilm elements ...

Frans

Barney
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Joyful,

When it came out that cinnamon would help with sugar levels, I bought a bottle of Cinnabon cinnamon from the Cinnabon store in the mall. I filled the capsules with this cinnamon. I took it religously and my sugar readings kept going up and up. My computer man was fixing my computer and I made a remark of how it was not working. He said I bet they put sugar in it. I told him that there is no way, that sugar was not a listed ingredient.

He tasted it and instantly said there was sugar in it. I gave him a taste of another brand I had in the cupboard and he said no sugar....so I tried it and the sugar readings came down (a little, nothing to write home about) but at least it was down, not up.

So there you have my experiment. (yes, I do love the cinnamon rolls from there).

HANG IN THERE, WE WILL MAKE IT!!!!BARNEY:D

expate
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... and what is wrong with sugar... in moderation, ie. not drinking it daily in the form of soda?  Is a piece of cake a week or a cookie here or there any worse than all this stevia vs. splenda vs. aspartame...?

Joyful
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Besides immune suppression?

true confessions time... I made an apple crisp with an almond flour topping sweetened with agave necter this week... mmmmm!

Last edited on Tue Nov 10th, 2009 23:07 by Joyful

eClaire
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Joyful, what immune suppression are you talking about?  I'm confused.:shock:

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I'm making just about everything with Agave nectar - there's a really good website that has recipies for a range of gluten free/sugar free etc. foods.  The author has celiac's & has done a really good job of rewriting many favorites:

 whttp://www.elanaspantry.com

I made brownies with agave nectar for my stepfather who has diabetes - he loves them!  Now, when there is a party with cake, he and I don't feel left out.



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Did you know that the cinnamon commonly available in the US (C. cassia), is from a different species of tree than Ceylon cinnamon that used to be the common Cinnamon (C. verum), and is now only available on the internet here ( I have been looking for it in stores for 6 months without success).  If you look at the info on the internet, you will find that common cinnamon contains a lot of coumarin which can, if consumed in large enough doses, damage your liver, so one might want to go moderately on common Cinnamon, but the Ceylon cinnamon has very little of the chemical.  Ceylon cinnamon is much milder in flavor, requiring larger quantities to be used, no doubt why it is no longer in common use.  I can't comment on the difference yet, as my taster and smell are still in the recovery stage.  But it is differences like these that I fear we are losing availability of.  Example 2 of things changing, I am having trouble finding regular endive and escarole in the supermarkets, as people are going to the milder lettuces.  The down side of living so long? 

Leo
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Cynthia-thanks for this reminder. I had heard about this before I think in the context of kids being particularly at risk of liver (etc) damage...
To add to what you said, the Ceylon cinnamon is also more expensive. The industry in particular therefore uses the Cassia type. Have you checked availability of Ceylon c. in health-food stores ??

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Joyful wrote:I made an apple crisp with an almond flour topping sweetened with agave necter this week... mmmmm!Santa Monica wrote:
I made brownies with agave nectar for my stepfather who has diabetes - he loves them!Would you both be willing to share your recipes!??
I have finally found almond flour and I already have agave nectar in the cupboard. ;)

Marysue

Joyful
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Ok, quick search online for keywords, "sugar immune" yields this quote (no annotation, sorry):
"...in adults, cell mediated immunity is significantly depressed after sugar ingestion (75 grams). A 100g portion of sugar can significantly reduce the capacity of white blood cells to engulf bacteria. Maximum immune suppression occurs one to two hours after ingestion and remains suppressed for up to five hours after feeding."  :(

But there may be other factors... http://nutrition.about.com/b/2009/10/05/does-sugar-really-hurt-your-immune-system.htm

Elana's Pantry has some great recipes. I used butter instead of grape seed oil in her Apple Crisp recipe. I found almond flour at Whole Foods. It is not a cheap item. $10 for a bag. 

Last edited on Wed Nov 11th, 2009 18:01 by Joyful

Cynthia S
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Leo, I couldn't find a healthfood store with it, or a specialty cooking store.  Nobody knew what I was talking about.  Had to order from a company that shipped it to me directly from Ceylon.
http://www.druera.com/shopping/product_info.php?cPath=2_19&products_id=108
Cynthia

Leo
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Marysue, if almond flour is so expensive, why not make it yourself (simply mill almonds) ?
Also - Joyful - butter contains too much D. I'd either use palm oil or olive oil (the "light" version that does not taste of olives).
Cynthia - could you please let us know if you actually receive it and if it's the "real stuff" ? Good deal if it is (though I'd probably go for the sticks as they keep longer). Also, looking at the amount, I just wanted to mention that I recall having read a warning somewhere (here on the MP site) to be careful with cinnnamon intake as it somehow affects the immune system. (I think at the time, it was unclear exactly how).

Cynthia S
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Leo, I don't think there is enough D in animal fat (butter) to worry about unless it is fortified, or you are eating gobs of it.  I eat a generous supply of butter on my toast every morning, and have been under the 12 ng/ml required of the MPers to make good progress.  I also eat lots of grass fed lean beef and not so lean turkey breast (skin included), so I don't think there is a problem unless one lives in an area where D is being fed to animals in high doses.  We had one member in Peru that was getting D in chicken because the local farmers were feeding the birds fish meal.

The cinnamon from Ceylon is definitely different, much lighter in color.  Seems to be good stuff, but I am somewhat of a poor judge right now, as my sense  of smell is still not up to full function, from zero function pre-MP.   Sense of taste  is up and down too, as IP.

Cynthia

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Leo--milling almonds sounds like a great suggestion (and I have a Vitamix that could probably handle the job. However, I'm guessing that the cost of the almonds required to create that same $10 bag of almond flour would cost me double that or more. :shock:
On another note....as expensive as healthy eating seems to be, I don't think I spend much more on my total food bill now that I've cut out all the pre-packaged foods that we consumed pre-MP. ;) And we used to buy "truckloads" of flour and sugar for all the baked goods! If I tried to bake that much using almond flour, that would be outrageous, but since I'll be using it sparingly for an occasional treat, it won't be a big expense.

Marysue

P.S. Thanks, Joyful, for the recipe. That Elana's Pantry site has some great recipes.

Last edited on Thu Nov 12th, 2009 11:58 by Marysue

Marysue
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Back on the Stevia discussion...I'm curious how others on the MP are doing with Stevia. I've tried it in the past, and although I understand that it is completely different from sugar, I always feel a brief neurological reaction to it. Although this goes away quickly, I don't know if I would want to use it very much. Maybe my brain is just "registering something new." ;)
Of course, I realize that we need to use everything in moderation. And, my reaction may simply be because I'm still early in my progress and have sensitivities to other substances as well.

Marysue

Cynthia S
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I am still using Splenda in moderation because I feel it has had a lot more time spent being looked into.  Yes, there is a cloud, but unless I have some idea of how dark this cloud is, I feel that the other shoe just hasn't had time to fall yet for Stevia.  Cynthia

Joyful
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On Stevia...

As with everything else, I think everyone will have their different, individual responses.

I used the liquid Stevia Clear pretty much on a daily basis to sweeten my drinking water (5-10 drops). I also use a little more to sweeten tea on the odd occasion that I drink tea.

I can't say it has any "effect" that I can discern.

findinganswers
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Hello,

I had a reaction from Stevia that would make me feel weak if I had a decent amount of it. It is similar to the reaction I get when I eat raw almonds. I think it is probably some form of IP or die-off of something, but I don't really know.

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It could also be a food sensitivity.  I have been sensitive to many things over the years, including Stevia.  In my case, my pulse goes up 30-60 min. after consuming something I'm sensitive to (or within a few minutes of holding the food in my mouth for a few minutes).  This is different from my IP response so I know it is not IP.  The sensitivity reactions often only occur after consuming it for a while (or a day or two after stopping consumption of it).

Joyce Waterhouse



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