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Prof Trevor Marshall
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I am in the final throes of preparation for the upcoming Scottish Summit on Vitamin D and MS. I will also get the chance to meet a number a new (and old) MP friends while I am in Glasgow.

http://www.shineonscotland.org.uk/news/2010/07/scottish-vitamin-d-summit-captures-international-attention/

I guess I should be proud to have been asked to talk at this event, but I do feel a little like I am walking into the Lion's den. Other Academics present will include

Prof. Reinhold Vieth (Toronto)
Prof George Ebers (Oxford)
Dr Sreeram Ramagopalan (Oxford)
Prof Colleen Hayes (University of Wisconsin)
Prof George Chaplin and Prof Nina Jablonski (Penn State)
Prof Alberto Ascherio (Harvard)
Dr Barbara Boucher (UK)
Dr Elina Hypponen (UK)
Prof Helmut Butzkueven (Uni of Melbourne, Australia)
Prof Gavin Giovanonni (UK NHS Trust)


Joyce has done a great job bringing me up-to-date with all the recent papers, so I hope I won't be blindsided. I will give a 20 minute presentation focused on our work, rather than citing the research of others.


"May you live in interesting times" and "May you come to the attention of powerful people" say the old Chinese curses...
 

titta
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Indeed, you will enter a lion's den!

All over Scotland the success of that boy (surely, they let him) demanding to supplement milk with Vit D at all schools throughout Scotland is celebrated. I can understand that boy as his mother suffers from MS and Scotland is that part of the world with the highest prevalence of MS as it is told in TV.

 
In Scotland  research, academia, NHS and industry are rather intervowen.
See http://www.tmrc.co.uk,  talentscotland.com see life sciences, and http://www.tmri.co.uk .

During my study Translational Medicine at Edinburgh University which is integrated in TMRC I had written a kind of little gloss about the Scottish Translational Medicine landscape and cited parts of the TMRI homepage which advertised for customers (Pharmaceutical industries to come to Scotland and do research including clinical trials):
Here an original citation:
Patient Access and data
Stable populations with high rates of morbidity for chronic disease.
NHS Scotland - centralised healthcare systems
Disease registers
Unique health informatics/database information
'Cradle to grave' electronic record linkage"



 I put this text into a picture (with words) - of chronic ill people in front of a wonderful Scottish sunset with the snowy mountains being reflected in the sea....instead of sheep reminding of the Highland clearances and stated that at least today the Scottish people are alllowed to stay...

And now I am a bit disappointed that they have changed this in this: http://www.tmri.co.uk/how_we_work/item.aspx?a=11&z=7
Did I provoke this??? :)

You can be sure that I have told about the MP several times and could reason it better and better but there is severe resistance. The MP is a threat for them esp for the Big Pharma (they love call this themselves). Pfizer (former Wyeth) is part of these 'initiatives'. The first page of the TMRC.co.uk  you see Pfizer and all 4 Scottish universities on a map which makes me associate a Roman chariot with Pfizer the driving soldier and the four Scottish universities the horses.....

So indeed, who dared to invite YOU??

Titta


titta
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And the third of those Chines curses:

May you find what you are looking for !

Titta

Prof Trevor Marshall
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So indeed, who dared to invite YOU
Without going into the gory detail, a member of the Scottish Health Ministry suggested to the MS Society that I might be invited.
 

Rico
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Good luck, Trevor. I sure hope some are going there with an open mind.

Rico

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HI DR MARSHALL

This is Fred in WV.  I always think of you as doing you very best work when you walk into "lion's den".  So I am very sure that you will over whelm them with the latest vit-D info out there again.  I will be pulling so go get them.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie

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The UK NHS is a small minded protectionist closed shop - (my opinion) having lived there for more than 20 years.

I also commented on the video released by the young lad about feeding everyone vit D with MS on a couple of sites - I was completely lamblasted for having a contrary opinion (I didn't even mention the MP).

I don't envy your task. but as you are in the right, I wish you good luck. :cool:

cupla other proverbs

"The greatest conqueror is he who overcomes the enemy without a blow"

"Slander cannot destroy an honest man - when the flood recedes the rock is there"



I think are quite apt for the "audience" you face.

Regards
John



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Be the lion tamer and show these kitties who is the master. Even if they are difficult and closed minded, a challenge is always good. Show no mercy! :)

Good luck!

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A conference in Glasgow?  Strwth.  I hope your liver is at peak fitness.  You may make a good impression on your hosts if you carefully study this:

http://www.scotchwhisky.net/distilleries/index.php

GeorgeinRollaMO
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Good luck, Trevor!!!

Yes! you are walking into a lion's den... so did Louis Pasteur!!!  He changed the whole medical world, too.  They had to curtail his influence with the Koch Postulates.

The very first thing that I would say/ask/establish at the podiuim, "How many of you are part of, or affiliated, with the Vitamin D Council?"

John McC has the thought for you to keep in mind.... ""Slander cannot destroy an honest man - when the flood recedes the rock is there"

And, if all else fails, remember that they wear the same boxer shorts that you do.

Wishing all wellness!!!  :)

Dark Vader... aka, George

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Some members have been having trouble accessing this thread this past few days. Please accept my apologies for the mess-up :)

jlunn247
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is there a way to develop a  probe for th1. it could be like a TB reaction. A general pea soup for
testing a skin area  prepped with vit D

jlunn247
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one part without d supplementation one part with.

seanlane
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The world could only stay flat for so long.....

However, unlike Galileo, I don't think Trevor will be sentenced to house arrest the for the rest of his life!

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11355810

Dr. Marshall........you are a brave man!!

We are all rooting for you!!!!!!!

seanlane
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OOF!  What a blunder.....Galileo promoted Copernicanism.....not concept of a  spherical earth....

All the same......one day I believe Trevor will be heralded as one leading medicine out of the 'dark age'

If you listen to Doctor Manny on Fox News.....you can definitely tell we are in a dark age!

GeorgeinRollaMO
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Seanlane wrote, "OOF!  What a blunder.....Galileo promoted Copernicanism.....not concept of a  spherical earth...."

 
I hate to see another misconception about Copernicus/Galilio.   ;)
 
"For Galileo, the tides were caused by the sloshing back and forth of water in the seas as a point on the Earth's surface speeded up and slowed down because of the Earth's rotation on its axis and revolution around the Sun."  My emphasis on 'rotation on its axis'.
 
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei
 
If that 'rotation on its axis' does not mean the earth is spherical, then what does it mean?
 
My dictionary gives one definition of 'sphere' as 'a round body whose surface is at all points equidistant from the center.'
 
That idea was central to the Copernican system; that the earth was a sphere and not flat, and revolved around the Sun.
 
Wishing all wellness!!!  :D
 
Dark Vader.... aka, George

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Science and Kindness that will get' em!

Cant wait to hear about it!

Jeannine

seanlane
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If there is any dialogue/debate between the researchers....please try to get it on video!

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Its kinda weird here. The hotel is attached to a hospital, and when I took a picture of the foyer there are ghosts drifting around the check-in desk and the corridor. Sort of artistic...



I camped one night in an empty hut
On the side of a lonely hill.
I didn't go much on empty huts,
But the night was awful chill.
So I boiled me billy and had me tea
And made sure that the door was shut.
Then I went to sleep in the empty bunk
By the wall of the old slab shed.

Now it must have been in the middle of the night
When I was feeling cosy and warm
I woke and there at the foot of my bunk
I see a horrible ghostly form
It seemed in shape to be half an ape
With a head like a chimpanzee
And I wondered what it was doing there,
And what did it want with me?

You may say if you please that I had DTs
Or call me a crimson liar,
But I wish you had seen it as plain as me,
With it's eyes like coals of fire.
Then it gave a groan such a horrible moan,
That my blood run cold with fear,
And ‘There’s only the two of us here, ’
It said. ‘There’s only the two of us here!’

Edward Harrington arr. Slim Dusty

 

titta
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Hello Dr. Marshall,

it sounds that the Scottish Malt has taken its toll!!? :)

Oh, I am familiar with these phenomenons (via patients' talk of course)

Thank you very much for your time and energy and patience to answer
all those questions I had.

And thank you to Pipistrelle and Nick to come along!

Titta

seanlane
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That's crazy.....you gotta ditch that old polaroid.....

No...for real? Where there not really people standing there whose images did not develop?

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Sean, it was a special 'artsy' photograph I took with a 30 second exposure so as to make sure people moved in and out of the photo while the shutter was open. Just playing with my camera while waiting for the conference dinner to start later this evening, then the full-day tomorrow... :)

seanlane
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Okay everybody.....stop laughing now....

ChrisMavo
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Had ME going there for a minute!  ... :shock:

Good luck at the conference Dr Marshall!  We all look forward to any pictures or videos you can share.

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Thanks for the great shot, the verse and for always keeping your sense of humour! I needed a laugh this evening!
Thinking of you in the lion's den. Go for it - it is quite an honour that they asked you but get ready for the roar...
All the best
H

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Im happy that you managed to get the effect to work Prof M :) and I like the black and white it looks great. Good luck with the presentaion. And thanks for your time even though you were jet lagged it was a great honour to meet you at last :D.

Pat.

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Very brave attending the conference, I see prof. Vieth - strong opposition.




Prof Trevor Marshall
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I survived, met some interesting people, and some useful contacts. Will fly back tomorrow. The video looks good, so I will be able to put it up on YouTube. Complete with Prof Vieth's questions, and our vigorous discussion, I think :)
 

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Excellent news Dr Marshall!!  I am sure you gave as good as you got in those discussions!  :D

I am certain that I speak for all of us online here in that I am looking forward to the new video!   Hopefully there are no more "ghosts" in the video ... :D

Have a good trip home! 

titta
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Good to hear that,

and I hope you have found a source for better food
and can relax now!

Thank you so much!
Titta

Prof Trevor Marshall
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titta wrote: and I hope you have found a source for better food
Yes, I had dinner in the hospital cafeteria tonight. Much more relaxed atmosphere :)

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Good news, Dr Marshall. It was such a pleasure to meet you on Sunday.  Looking forward to the video when you have time to put it on youtube.

Safe travelling.  I am so glad you were able to come to Scotland.

All the best

Morag


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Dr Trevor Marshall wrote: Complete with Prof Vieth's questions, and our vigorous discussion, I think :)

Ow, I certainly want to hear thát exchange  :D:D

I wonder if he accused you of endangering his wife's company (D-Drops) ?  ;)

Best, Frans

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 Obviously I have not seen the video....but looking at some of the research of these scientists I'm thinking......it  must be so very very radical and hard to bear what Marshall is really saying.

 To be wrong and corrected on a matter is one thing...but when you have spent vast amounts of time researching and then basically making it your life's worth promoting a supplemental protocol thats premise turns out to be entirely wrong......that's got to be hard to hear about. 

 

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Dawn breaks over the Clyde, as seen from my hotel window. Glasgow is on the left, the airport on the right, and the Titan crane in the middle.



"Boston at last and the plane's touching down
Our hostess is handing the hot towels around
From a terminal gate to a black limousine
It's a ten minute ride to the Holiday Inn

Boredom's a pastime that one soon acquired
Where you get to the stage where you're not even tired
Kicking your heels till the time comes around
To pick up your bags and head out of town"  ......... Elton John/Bernie Taupin
 
 
Well, my taxi is due at 6:30am. Be home soon...
 

seanlane
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Yeah man....we will  send you some warm french fries!

titta
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Homesick?
Good to have a home to feel sick for:dude:

Titta

seanlane
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With bated breath I await......

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Dr. Marshall,
Do they have a high incidence of Lyme disease in Scotland? I know on the island of Martha's Vineyard, where I contracted the disease, they have a very high incidence of MS. I have always wondered if the two could be related?

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Borrelia is just one of the pathogens which tries to knock out the VDR in order to persist. It is part of the microbiota, and seems to lose most of its genome when it goes into the metagenome. It is over-rated as a pathogen by folk who don't seem to be able to understand that one pathogen is unlikely to cause all the disease dysfunctions typically labeled as 'Lyme'. Well one could, but it is unlikely, and the pathogen would likely not disappear as disease moves towards the chronic phase.

People who react violently to tick bites are already ill, with an immune system already struggling against its microbiota. Borrelia's additional suppression of the VDR may occasionally push people's immune systems "over the edge" but usually the microbiota takes another few (or more) years to reach overwhelming proportions.
 
As I say in my "take home points" from Glasgow "association is not causation." Sometimes there are also bystanders at the scene of a crime :) Sometimes unwitting accomplices :)
 

Prof Trevor Marshall
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The video of my presentation, and the question and answer session, is now online at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO-f0cqnz-4
 
 

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I like it, awesome!!! Lots of detail into the science, very complex. I don't know too much about most of the things you were talking about. And, it looks like most of those scientists didn't either. One guy tries to bring politics into it and got slammed with a nice answer.
The other guy looked like he had some good scientific questions, and ended up just asking how to find out all these things that he worked so hard at and couldn't get the answers.
What a way to show them who's the BOSS!

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I enjoyed that - the science is changing before their very eyes and some are too self  absorbed and insular to recognise it. ... (gotta love those big research/sponsorship grants)

"your can measure things like magic, that I've been spending years trying to measure"...........might I do  a Trevor and suggest google....

Prof Marshall your presentation of the data & science seems to get stronger with each outing and I hope that resonates with the intended audiences.  There are those that will argue on semantics and refuse to take off their blinkers, but the evidence is mounting and the beneficiaries (people getting well) will be the winners here.

Well done, I appreciate the efforts you and the team are makng on our behalf...:cool:

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Bravo Dr Marshall!  Another outstanding and clear presentation!  It gets better and better as you hone the science underlying it all! 

It appears you danced into the "belly of the beast" and shook them up quite effectively!!  I especially enjoyed the expression on the Professor seated next to you during the Q & A session.. Prof. Ascherio I believe ... he looked as though he had just swallowed a bushel of lemons!  :D

Do you think you at least made some of the other researchers think outside the box a bit?  Did any of them show an open mind on this vital question of vitamin D's role in human health? It must be very hard for these other researchers to have someone demonstrate that something they have worked on for many years with all good intentions... is WRONG!!!  And scientists hate to have their theories and work proven wrong. 

I admire your courage to face such a contrary audience.  Of course it certainly helps to have the facts and the science, not to even mention the massive anecdotal evidence, which they dismiss out of hand, firmly on YOUR side!! 

When can we get a copy of that book chapter... it is sure to be stellar I am sure.


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Woohooo! Go Prof, go! I just finished watching it and, like John McC, I loved the way you handled it. "you can measure things like magic..." - priceless!
Big congrats!

Marty.K
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I hope the more people look into getting their governments into paying for their Vit D expenses, will lead to the governments turn to you. All things have a way to balance out.

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Wow that was brilliant Prof M, you are getting better and better :) and faster and faster :) the guy sat next to you at the Q and A was suffering lol

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Great to finally see that one!!!!!

  I am struck by the expressions of the gentlemen sitting with you....either stupified or maybe  embarrassed....hard to say....but it seemed like disbelief.

 At this point in time it seems as though patients have been graciously given the perspectives on chronic disease and Vitamin D that the researchers/professors  really need to acquire. 

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Trevor, aside from a show of appreciation and admiration for your continued efforts, how many people were at that session? Were they mostly physicians?

You mentioned IRB. What is this?

Impressive presentation. Loved the "need lots of money" and "I'll send you a copy" of your book chapter. Love it :)

Look forward to reading the chapter in the new book.

Rico

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Not only a great presentation but nice job on the video.
I like how you displayed the screen in such a readable manner.

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Thanks to everybody for your good wishes. I want to particularly thank all my colleagues for working through the slides and presentation with me before I left for Scotland :)
 
 
Rico wrote: Trevor, aside from a show of appreciation and admiration for your continued efforts, how many people were at that session? Were they mostly physicians?
There were probably about 10-15 in the room. It was an invited summit, after all. But that number included experts such as Prof Reinhold Vieth, Dr Sreeram V. Ramagopalan, Dr Elina Hyppönen, Prof. Alberto Ascherio and Prof. Helmut Butzkueven.

The questioner about 'anecdotal' was not one of these, I am not sure who that was.

Also present were staff from the Scottish Government and UK National Health Services...
 

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Rico wrote: You mentioned IRB. What is this?

Institutional review board (Wikipedia)

"An institutional review board (IRB), also known as an independent ethics committee (IEC) or ethical review board (ERB), is a committee that has been formally designated to approve, monitor, and review biomedical and behavioral research involving humans with the aim to protect the rights and welfare of the research subjects."

Awesome performance Trevor!!! It must indeed have come across like "magic" to some in that audience. :D:D:D

Thank you!

Prof Trevor Marshall
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For those who live in Countries where YouTube is blocked, or those who want to download a clean MP4 copy of the video, I have put them up on Vimeo now, and they should be available at these URLs:

http://www.vimeo.com/15279071

http://www.vimeo.com/15278736
 

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I am a patient who has been helped by your discovery.  I cut out all vitamin D, took olmesartan and antibiotics, and got better.

I would be unable to work and on disability if I had continued to eat fortified foods and to take vitamins with vitamin D.

Yet those doctors are completely locked into thinking that vitamin D and more vitamin
D is helpful.  Thanks for standing up to the medical establishment with facts and really helping those who were sick.   

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Dr. Marshall and ARF,

A masterful presentation--our side is getting stronger and stronger.

Sherry

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Dr. Marshall,

Great work! What feedback, if any, did you get from the participants after your presentation? How about from the conference organizers? Maybe the Scots would like to conduct a clinical trial on their MS sufferers with one group following the MP and another taking vitamin D supplements.

Prof Trevor Marshall
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DMiller wrote:Maybe the Scots would like to conduct a clinical trial on their MS sufferers with one group following the MP and another taking vitamin D supplements.
I doubt that would work out. You see, they know that Vitamin D cures MS, while the MP is dangerous. So it would not be ethical to conduct such a trial :)
 
 
Like many Th1 patients, the MS sufferers which I met had very little cognition left. I tried to explain to one that trying to get Vitamin D put into milk to prevent MS was putting the cart before the horse. Until you can treat the disease you can't expect to prevent it, because you have no idea what causes the illness. But I just couldn't get through. He knew that Vitamin D was preventative, and that was that... An eminent scientist had told him so...
  

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http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Scottish-islands-selected-for-new-vitamin-D-study/?c=TSqlTaJaZt5C07H62n9UUA%3D%3D&utm_source=newsletter_daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter%2BDaily

Islands in the sun!

titta
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It is desastrous.

It is long known that the occurence of MS on Orkney and Shetland happend during WWII and before it was very rare.
here a link which is from 'Multiple Sclerosis, a comprehensice guide'
http://books.google.com/books?id=EK4buPsKhnEC&pg=PA133&lpg=PA133&dq=infectious+MS+orkney&source=bl&ots=k1koRr5wUp&sig=FNueJojr4K4FNG0bOqQlyN__hWk&hl=de&ei=yG1JTdvPOdO2hAebzMyxDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=infectious%20MS%20orkney&f=false

And regarding the amount of intake of VitD via fish and mussles should not be forgotten esp on those islands. And beside, the sea reflects so much light........

Titta


Limburg
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Joined: Thu Feb 19th, 2009
Location: Geleen, Netherlands
Posts: 1057
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And during the same period (WW2) on the Faroe Islands...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0850/is_n2_v15/ai_19802754/

ChrisMavo
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Joined: Sat Aug 1st, 2009
Location: San Francisco, California USA
Posts: 885
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At least she mentioned this:

Dr Ruth McQuillan from the University of Edinburgh tells Nathan Gray why it is important to study in such northerly climes. “There have been lots of observational studied showing an association between various diseases and vitamin D deficiency, but there is not any evidence yet that that is a casual relationship… it may be that vitamin D deficiency is a marker of ill health,” she said.

Marysue
Foundation Staff


Joined: Sun Oct 11th, 2009
Location: Gainesville, Florida USA
Posts: 755
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That's awesome. I don't think I've seen any similar quote (outside of ARF, of course) acknowledging that low vitamin D could be a marker of ill health. Do you think she's read or seen Dr. Marshall's presentations?



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