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Prof Trevor Marshall
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Now that we understand the large size of the cigarette-microbiome (Amy and I have included a slide on that in each of our recent presentations) we can start contemplate an interesting question"

"Is tobacco the cause of disease, or does disease cause sick people to use it for palliation of their condition"

Here is a paper sent to me this morning which contemplates a similar, but not identical, issue:

http://bit.ly/dXgACU

..Trevor..

Limburg
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Now I can no longer hide behind my smokey curtain, I'm a smoker for 35 years......

Already heard you talking about the microbiome in tobacco before, but still a smoker.

Smoking may have increased my risk of getting MS, I actually got diagnosed.

I have heard in Holland a vaccin against smoking is developed, the trials are very promising, maybe I need it too, cannot stop smoking by myself.....

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HI ALL

This is Fred in WV.  When smoking comes up when I am talking to people about these TH1 diseases, I tell them that smoking does not cause them but makes more inflammation in their bodies when makes  the disease worse after they get the disease.  Smoking causes more inflammation in their bodies. 

I never smoked or drank and when I was diagnosed with the sarc the doctor said it was a good thing because I would be in much worse shape than I was already in. The doctor told me my lungs looked like some one that was a cronic smoker.

I feel the same with cancer and smoking or even heart disease.

Remember, we are all in this together and I am pulling for us.

Your friend in Sarcoidosis
Freddie

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Toxicol. Sci. 2009 May; vol. 109(1) pp. 50-8

The aryl hydrocarbon receptor activator benzo[a]pyrene enhances vitamin D3 catabolism in macrophages.

Matsunawa M, Amano Y, Endo K, Uno S, Sakaki T, Yamada S, Makishima M
Benzo[a]pyrene (BaP), a polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon produced by cigarette combustion, is implicated as a causative agent in smoking-related cancer and atherosclerosis. 1,25-Dihydroxyvitamin D3 [1,25(OH)2D3], a potent ligand for the nuclear receptor vitamin D receptor (VDR), has been shown to decrease the risk of osteoporosis, some types of cancer and cardiovascular disease, suggesting an opposing effect of vitamin D3 to cigarette smoking. In this study, we investigated the effects of BaP on the vitamin D3 signaling pathway. BaP effectively enhanced the 1,25(OH)2D3-dependent induction of cytochrome P450 24A1 (CYP24A1) in human monocyte/macrophage-derived THP-1 cells and breast cancer MCF-7 cells. BaP combination was less or not effective on mRNA expression of CD14, arachidonate 5-lipoxygenase, and cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide in THP-1 cells. BaP also increased the expression of CYP24A1 induced by a non-vitamin D VDR ligand, lithocholic acid acetate. Another aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AhR) ligand, 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin, enhanced CYP24A1 expression by 1,25(OH)2D3 in THP-1 cells. Treatment of cells with an AhR antagonist and a protein synthesis inhibitor inhibited the enhancing effect of BaP on CYP24A1 induction, indicating that the effects of BaP are mediated by AhR activation and de novo protein synthesis. BaP pretreatment increased 1,25(OH)2D3-dependent recruitment of VDR and retinoid X receptor to the CYP24A1 promoter. Analysis of 1,25(OH)2D3 metabolism showed that BaP enhanced the hydroxylation of 1,25(OH)2D3 by CYP24A1 in THP-1 cells. Thus, AhR activation by BaP stimulates vitamin D3 catabolism. Modulation of vitamin D signaling by AhR may represent a mechanism underlying cigarette smoking-related diseases.

rick
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I used tobacco to palliate my condition, the bigger the herx the more I smoked. (Stupid)

We all know tobacco is bad but have a think about the pathogens in fruit and vegetables that are irrigated with reclaimed water used for fertigation? Not everyone smokes but the majority eat vegies

I have seen vegetables grown commercially in a reclaimed water hydroponic system where the filtration system becomes blocked with a slimy biofilm up to half an inch thick, Easy to fix, just take off the filters!  I’ve worked on one of these commercial systems and became acutely ill.  Think about it, this is effluent supplied from human sewage; just imagine the plethora of hormones and abx residual supplied in that anaerobic pathogenic slurry. Feed the overpopulated hordes at what cost? 
The government has been considering reclaimed water in Australia for domestic drinking supplies; some places are already hooked up to a grey water supply for their gardens, anyone for a glass of estrogenized water and a smoke

rick
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This may be of interest to any electronic geeks, tobacco mosaic virus has a unique property.

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/12/23/university-researches-battery-applications-tobacco-mosaic-virus/

wrotek
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I had no problems stopping smoking after getting sick. Before, small amount of tobacco, 3-5 cigarettes a day, made me feel better. Now nauseated and dull. My brother has shisha water pipe and sometimes he fires it up, so I take some puffs since it smells nice and it is not making me dull. Perhaps the water filtration system works removing heavier constituents of tobacco or the smoke is simply less condensed. Also my father uses electronic cigarette which vaporizes pure nicotine , which is also not making me dull and perhaps little energetic - like shisha.

Milan
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When I got very sick of CFS/IBS , even smallest amount of tobacco smoke would cause me ringing in the ears , brain fog and stomach symptoms , sometimes it would cause me diarrhea or bloating.I was running away from smoke as far as I could.I stopped contacting all my friends that smoked and I didn't talk with my sisters husband .He got offended every time he comes to our house and when he start smoking and I don't even come to see and say hello to him and my sister and her two daughters.We in family don't smoke and then he comes and fill ours living room full of tobacco smoke.My mother and father were afraid to tell him not to smoke when he is in our house because than he could get offended and it would worsen relationship between two families.

eClaire
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No location shows up under your name, but I am thinking you live outside the US or at least far from the part of the US where I live where it is very common for cigarette smoke to be banned from the home even when there is a smoker living there.  A friend of mine smokes and she never smokes in her own home.  My mother smokes and does not smoke in her own home.  They smoke outside out of consideration of anyone who visits, knowing that the smoke smell is off putting to many visitors.

I banned smoking from my home in 1979.  This is now so common as to be expected by most people that I meet. 

I hope your family can find a way to deal with this as people have a right to be comfortable in their own homes. 

Sallie Q
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nice to see you online Claire

Our family is similar, four of my five smoke (two heavily) but always outside my house and usually outside their own

our climate helps, of course :)

Joyful
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Not a study on smoking, just on nicotine...

Nicotine: a different approach to treatment of obstructive sleep apnea.

Gothe B, Strohl KP, Levin S, Cherniack NS.

Abstract Reduced upper airway muscle activity may contribute to the occurrence of obstructive apneas during sleep. There is no uniformly successful treatment of these apneas, and it is possible that agents which increase upper airway muscle activity could reduce the occurrence of obstruction during sleep. Nicotine, a known stimulant of breathing, also increases the activity of muscles which dilate the upper airway proportionally more than it does ventilation. Hence, we evaluated the effect of nicotine on apneas during the first two hours of sleep in eight patients with sleep apnea syndrome. It was concluded that nicotine reduces apneas during the early hours of sleep, and this effect may be caused by its stimulating action on upper airway muscles.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3965253 

eClaire
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Very interesting. Though it is said that those of us with ME/CFS lack oxygen on a cellular level, in my early 30s I developed functional back pain as a result of crossing my arms behind my head, particularly in my sleep (but also when I was awake), which over extended my spine and caused a lot of pain. Thing is I could breathe better with my upper airways lifted.

A friend with ME/CFS has recently started smoking again and the amount of energy she has and the quality of her life improved dramatically.

Are our experiences coincidental or is there really something to the upper airway that in peculiar in people with ME/CFS?

Of course, many of us are sensitive to cigarette smoke and so that would not be the answer and I've known someone whose FM seemed to be triggered by nicotine patches (when she was trying to quit smoking).

I have no doubt this is not a permanent solution (as nicotine might operate via other properties other than what is assumed--that is, my friend might be palliating her symptoms with nicotine), but it's interesting nevertheless.

Last edited on Sun Feb 5th, 2012 14:27 by eClaire

Joyful
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Thanks for those comments Claire.

I noticed that my shoulders curved down more when I was at my worst. A physical therapist taught me to stand in a corner of the room putting my hands on the walls at chest height and pushing into the corner to stretch out the upper chest area.

I've also noticed I feel better if I tap my fists alternately left/right over my upper chest area for a minute or so. (Kind of like a Tarzan thumping.) It might help calm the nervous system.

Last edited on Sun Feb 5th, 2012 18:50 by Joyful

eClaire
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I had to do that same exercise to lengthen the muscles in my chest wall Joyful after being so sick for so long. And my shoulders still round when hit with neurological symptoms that feign complete and instant exhaustion. For example, my mother has a light in her hallway that acts like Kryptonite to me. It takes me a long time to recover from it visually and physically. I can feel my body bending under it. It's one of those canned lights, but something must be wrong with it because I have canned lights in my kitchen and have no trouble at all.

Joyful
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Flickering lights can really put my nervous system over the edge!

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Joyful wrote: Flickering lights can really put my nervous system over the edge
One of the areas of the brain that processes the signal from each eye is devoted to detecting movement (other areas process colour and so on), everybody detects motion to a slightly different degree so it may be that you are more sensitive than most.

Across the population the average fusion threshold, above which flickering becomes no longer discernible, is about 90 Hz, but some people respond to flicker up to about 150Hz, which can cause major problems under halophosphate lighting which flickers at twice the AC frequency i.e. 120Hz in th US and 100Hz in countries with a 50Hz electrical system.  The modulation depth of the flicker can vary and also has considerable variation across the colour spectrum, so there are plenty of reasons why you may be sensitive to some lights but not others.

Twenty years ago I worked on a research study into exactly that, but it was funded by Thorn EMI and as soon as we showed conclusively that their lights were causing considerable harm the research got shut down.  I have said before what I think of the state of modern science, and it started with that experience.

Joyful
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Good to know. Thanks for explaining that. :)

Seth
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My grandfather smoked from the age of 13.
In his later years, he developed sleep apnoea and his doctor suggested stopping smoking, which he did (in his mid 80s). He died only about a year after (stopped breathing in his sleep).
He served in the army and was always working outside on his farms, ate good basic food and he seemed healthy all his years, despite being run over by a tractor twice and having a bit of a limp in his step.

My father follwed suit and is still going strong into his late 60s.

Don't tell me to take up smoking now, cos I already gave up (then got sick!) and I can't stand cigs at all now.

:)

Joyful
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In your grandfather's case, it would seem that stopping the nicotine inhalation could have contributed to his demise. :?

Do you have sleep apnea, Seth?

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I have sleep apnea ... but I certainly do not intend to take up smoking!!  :D

wrotek
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I used to be exposed to cigarette smoke since small child, both my parents smoked. I remember driving in a car with my father on holidays, and puking all over it from cigarette smoke.

Lol

jrfoutin
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From the other Wiki:
Jeanne Calment held the record for verifiable oldest living person, surviving to 122 years. Per smoking: She smoked until the age of 117, only five years before her death. Calment smoked from the age of 21 (1896), though according to an unspecified source, she smoked no more than two cigarettes per day.

Calment ascribed her longevity and relatively youthful appearance for her age to olive oil, which she said she poured on all her food and rubbed onto her skin, as well as a diet of port wine, and ate nearly one kilogram of chocolate every week.
_____________

Discussion:
But you know, she was single for most of her life (husband died of some kind of food poisoning and it isn't really described whether she had had some of the same but it didn't bother her at the time), had financial issues taken care of for her and it could have been the sport of fencing she took up when she was in her 80's.
_____________

Me, personally:
But as for me, I have never smoked and the smell of it gagged me even as a child when I went to a friend's home that had a smoker in the home. I'm old, so smoking in the home was common for smokers to do then.

I don't drink port or anything like it.

A kilo of chocolate is really a lot. :shock: We might guess the mass produced big name stuff with HFCS and/or soy all through it was not what she was eating.

Olive oil varies some from regions where it is grown and soil conditions, so who knows what was in hers. But I put the best I can on my salads and food. I like it better for skin than lotions with who knows what in it. I hope it isn't full of farming chemicals, but unless I grow it in my own garden, I really have a hard time knowing what is in any food.

As far as I can tell, I don't think it was the drink or smoke that kept Jeanne Calment alive, so my bet is she handled stress pretty good, had a fairly dependable routine/diet/lifestyle, and this might be key: wasn't exposed to or just naturally handled a lot of the nasty microbes (but what of the sick artist?) and chocolate and olive oil are probably are OK even if you ingest a lot, although I don't suggest that for anyone.

_________

But at some point in time we'll know more of the MP, and in the mean time, my money isn't on smoking to help anyone. She might have lived longer? Dunno.

Best to all--Janet

eClaire
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I might also assume she started out with a low pathogen load.

My parents smoked in the home and it made me ill my whole childhood. It took me until my mid 20s to see that without smoke (and VOCs) as a trigger I felt a whole heck of a lot better. Already saddled with issues from birth and ME/CFS symptoms from age 7, I can safely say I probably started out in life with a high pathogen load and I could never have smoked.

Given that tobacco smoked has a lot of bacteria, it doesn't seem like a bright idea. Lots of things have benefits that can eventually get outweighed by the negatives associated with it.


Lee
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My great aunt lived to be 106.  She passed away last fall after falling and becoming bed fast.  I think if she had not fallen she would still be with us.  She was a grand lady and smoked for most of her adult life.  She did quit about the time she lost her husband in 1980.  She was always a little overweight but loved to eat and ate well.  She did drink a little wine and even beer.  She loved a taste of ice cream in the evenings or a "sweet".  She lived most of her life just outside NYC where she made slipcovers and draperies for wealthy.  She was not wealthy but had plenty ...:cool:  She never had any children and we always considered her the "stern auntie" even though she did smile a lot.  She did retire to Fl and lived with my cousin and they loved the sunshine and her pool until the last few years of her life.  My cousin is a nurse and made sure that she avoided mainstream meds.  I remember my cousin fighting to keep her off things like Lipitor!   She did use a little aspirin, thyroid and hydrocodone in her later years.  She loved her  small pups and always had at least one at her feet and one in her lap ...:cool:   We miss her!  Lee

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You always hear reports about that 1 or 2 people in a zillion that smoked like a chimney, drank like a fish, ate everything bad, and then lived to be 120 or something. I wonder if they had supercharged VDRs or just got lucky?

Some people get all the luck! My money's not on smoking, drinking or even chocolate :X  (wah!)

Deb

Lee
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Many of the women on my mom's side of the family lived long healthy lives.  I wonder why my sis and I did not get the good genes ...:X  But ...we did have to live with these healthy women that smoked too ...:shock:  Could second hand smoke be worse than first hand?   I have heard this.  Plus my sis and I had many vaccinations our elders did not have.  I had to have TWO small pox because the first did not scar ....outrageous!!   Lee

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That is outrageous as well as totally unfair. I don't think I had small pox vaccine (born in 1964) but I remember the big scar my grandmother had on her arm.

I like that your aunt had pups though.

I used to smoke, but wish I never did.

Deb

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Just when I too am lamenting coming from the shallow end of the gene pool (a family plagued with Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, brain tumours, high blood pressure, depression and autism spectrum disorders) I remember my maternal grandfather, a WWI veteran who survived close encounters with a bullet, bomb, & torpedo, smoked two packs of Woodbines/day for over 75 years, drank rum every evening, immigrated to Canada at the age of 70, became assistant golf pro at a prestigious golf course, remarried at 80, and when he outlived that wife, had two girlfriends trying to lure him off the golf course until the month before he died, predictably, of lung cancer.

Now I realise I have 1/4 chance of living to be a grand old age!

I won't be taking up arms or smoking any time soon, but perhaps I should rethink the golf, rum, and lovers?   :P:shock::P

Cynthia S
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I wonder what percentage of the centenarian women never had children.

Cynthia

Lee
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I wonder that too Cynthia ....:P  Lee (mom of three)

Sunset
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Cynthia wrote: I wonder what percentage of the centenarian women never had children.

I had a Great Aunt who lived to 101. She didn't smoke, never had children, lived in the same area of NY her whole life and I don't believe she ever held a job except maintaing her own house. I don't know whether or not her husband smoked. He died when I was really young. But basically she lived a very low stress life and she didn't travel much. She outlived her husband by at least three decades. She was healthy well into her late 90's, then she was diagnosed with Lyme Disease.

As for me, the first 14 years of my life I was exposed to second hand smoke because my dad was a smoker. Just like Wrotek, I too would puke in the car when we travelled anywhere. My parents thought I just had motion sickness, but in hindsight I believe it was all the smoke in the car. :X

My mother had her first three children in a 3 year period (my oldest sister was born in July 1967 and I, the 3rd child, was born in July 1970). We were all full-term, but low-birth weight babies. Me and my siblings all developed allergies/sensitivities (both food and environmental) at very young ages. My dad use to say he couldn't understand why we always had colds, oh if only he had realized that his smoking was part of the problem! :shock::shock::shock:

Just out of curiosity I did try cigarettes when I was a teen, but I didn't like them.

IMHO, some people are fortunate enough to get a healthy start in life and have live a low stress life (low bacteria load & low stress levels) and some of us are not.

Best regards,
Sunset

Lee
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My mother was amazed that mys sis and I too had more colds, flu's and allergies than she ever had.  I seriously think it was because she was not around smokers as a child like we were plus she never had near the vaccinations etc.  My sis and I endured many more shots like tetnus & thyphoid due to having horses and water skiing in dubious waters near our home.  We also had stress from living with a WW2 vet (our dad) that had lost his leg and general health from the war.  Parents eventually divorced but not before my sis and I witnessed plenty of anger and ptss from him and directed at us ....:(  This was probably as bad as the 2nd hand smoke etc.  Lee

wrotek
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I wonder if cannabis has microbiome and if it differs from that in tobacco.

Prof Trevor Marshall
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Yes, all plants have a microbiome, and because cannabis is grown and process differently from tobacco, it would be unusual if that microbiome was substantially similar.
 

jrfoutin
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With a fairly skin deep google search I found this little snippet that goes nowhere though:

http://home.uchicago.edu/~/mewinsto/research.html

"THE CANNABIS MICROBIOME

Bacterial interactions within the soil play a major role in plant ecology, as soil microorganisms can provide a variety of benefits such as nitrogen fixation, production of growth stimulants, improved water retention, and suppression of root diseases. Frequently, these vital microbial processes occur within the diverse community of the rhizosphere and rhizoplane due to their higher interaction with the plant root system, and are heavily influenced by fungal saprotrophs and plant-mutualists such as endomycorrhizal and ectomycorrhizal fungi. Despite the economic and medicinal importance of Cannabis, little is known about its microbial associations within the soil environment. A survey of the microbial communities associated with several different strains of Cannabis offers us insight into the edaphic and cultivar-specific factors that control the microbiome composition."



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