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Our Definitive Paper on CFS / ME is Published
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2   
 

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GillyB
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 Posted: Fri Apr 19th, 2013 05:56

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If you figure out how to convince your health insurer to pay for your olmesartan, please let us all know.  I was turned down flat by mine.



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MP start Jun'12, once again on an MP break | Degenerative Disc Disease, Osteoarthritis, Post-Lyme, depression/anxiety, GI. Most recent serum 25D: 6/15 -18
Carry on, and keep MP'ing
Cynthia S
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 Posted: Fri Apr 19th, 2013 13:14

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Buying thru Canadian on-line companies was about the same price as my copay, without the enormous hassle.  Cynthia



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MP start 10/08,break 1/16 - 9/16, Spondylitis'97,early Diverticulosis'98,early AMD'08,Calcium anomaly'95,TypeII Diabetes(?)'02,Degenerative hip disease'12, 25D=10.8 May'18 (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) https://marshallprotocol.com/forum30/13911-2.html
Sallie Q
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 Posted: Fri Apr 19th, 2013 19:24

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uvbogden wrote: .....................key words that suggest, even though I know this has been a part of medical practice for decades, that the MP might be experimental: "research foundation", "study site", and "cohort".
............

Off the top of my head, but in  keeping with the intention to close the Support Forum on curemy
perhaps change MPSS to Marshall Protocol Support Site :?



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VideoMP'08-'11(now@3x20mgOLM)Dx Depressn'70,node&brCancer'90,BCC'05,Sjgren08|SxCFS,RA,stroke,ASD,reflx 25D=9ng/ml_Nov'17Info
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sat Apr 20th, 2013 13:29

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@uvbogden

Q2. Could VDR be the only regulator of innate immunity?

No, but it is a primary target of the microbes. They cannot persist while Cathelicidin is expressed. Thus VDR is always knocked down in chronic disease, but by a variety of mechanisms.

Q3. Why was the article limited to CFS/ME when many other chronic inflammatory diseases share the same symptoms and processes?

Because Medicine still likes to think in terms of diagnoses, and we are required to write papers so that they are accepted by peer-reviewers from the Medical community :)

Q4a. Many scientists believe that dinosaurs became extinct in response to migrating herds that brought new diseases and microbiomes to existing herds (and vice-versa)


None, that i have spoken with

Q4b. As there is increased global travel and MacDonald's are springing up around the world, are we taking obesity, diabetes and heart disease to the third world?

In all of my recent presentations I have a slide pointing to this as a pathogenic factor:

http://www.youtube.com/DrTrevorMarshall

Q5a. What about the tendency of Benicar to increase blood levels of potassium, sometimes to dangerous levels?

What makes you say they are dangerous. Oh - you mean they would be dangerous if the patient was not taking benicar - the two sets of 'dangerous' levels are different, of course... See Figure 3 of this paper for a discussion of creatinine (which is similar):

http://autoimmunityresearch.org/preprints/Proal2010CellularMolecularImmunologyPreprint.pdf

Q5b. When are we going to get a Benicar generic that's not as expensive?

Quite good if you are living in Europe, but if you are living in the USA, never. The FDA has no incentive to approve one, and PhRMA has no incentive to provide one. See, for example, my recent presentation at the FDA public hearing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZUF-GvBplo

q6. Can probiotics or customized microbial treatment help you acquire a healthier microbiome?

Not that I have seen. In fact, they seem to just primarily overload the immune system.

Q7a. I have Sarcoidosis with many of the symptoms of CFS/ME. However, my calcium, ACE, 25-D and 1,25-D levels are all low. Does this mean VDR does not play a significant role in my chronic inflammation?

Well, if the VDR is not playing a role, how do you rationalize all those changes? :) Most of my recent presentations talk about the "Interactome" and how the body sets up homeostasis. Hopefully that will help you fit the puzzle together

Q7b. Or do blood levels not always represent what's going on in the cells?

The cell membrane, a lipid bilayer, exists to stop the insides of a cell 'merging' with the bloodstream (dissolving into the bloodstream would be an apt description :) ) Clearly there are some things which will not penetrate this membrane, and stay inside the cell.

Q8. I'm trying to convince my health insurance company to help pay for my immunostimulation. One thing they will refuse to pay for is anything "experimental". Looking on your websites for details (including the use of multiple doses of Benicar per day) to send them I ran across a number of key words that suggest, even though I know this has been a part of medical practice for decades, that the MP might be experimental: "research foundation", "study site", and "cohort".

Insurance companies in the USA don't listen to science or reason. They will seize any opportunity to deny a claim. The words we use are immaterial. You might have a chat with them about needing to go on a highly expensive biologic, like Rituximab, if they won't approve olmesartan.

Q9. Do you have or could you create literature that omits these words and clearly states that the MP is no longer "experimental". It might help others as well to get insurance coverage for the MP.

If we did that we would have the FDA and every US State Medical Board breathing down our necks. They regard the MP as experimental, so it is them that you need to discuss this issue with, I think :)

Hope that helps,
Trevor


eClaire
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 Posted: Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 04:17

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I could not find the general thread on ME/CFS (if someone can link me, I will save it for future reference) regardless of forum. (I was looking in the forum closed to the general public, as I think it is best to discuss things like what I'm about to post there.) If someone wants to move this post to the appropriate place, I'd appreciate it.

I came across this, which I do not think is incompatible with the MP in terms of the causes of ME/CFS. And I wanted to know people's thoughts. (It wouldn't change my reasons for being on the MP, as I want my body to knock out whatever is setting off the cascade of symptoms.)

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2013/06/23/vanelzakker-vnih-cfs-in-press/



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Dec 2006, Olmesartan break Feb - April 2007, ME/Fibro/PTSD/MCS/Hypermobility (since childhood; disabled 2003); 25D summer 2012 <4 (meaning unable to detect)
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 04:25

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Claire, the "Medical Hypotheses" paper is just a small subset of what is actually happening, a small subset of what we have described? Looking at individual pathogens and only the vagus nerve cannot describe a terrible systemic disease process like CFS/ME :) :)
 

Markt9452
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 Posted: Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 05:08

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I noticed some patterns with that nerve and th1 pshychological symptoms a few years ago.

I have not read the paper yet but I think there are some interesting things going on with that nerve.

My hypothesis was that nerve was being manipulated by the infectious process to achieve specific bahaviour patterns that would further the disease process... somewhat like the stories about rats being dangerously attracted to cats in the presence of certain microbes.

Last edited on Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 05:09 by Markt9452



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MP Feb08 (no breaks) light sensitivity, fatigue, confusion, muscle twitching, memory loss, dyslexia, skin lesions, sore feet, electrical sensations, vertigo, tinnitus, 125D20 D25<10 2008
Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 05:11

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Sure, its just that a lot more is happening than just the vagus nerve :)

eClaire
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 Posted: Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 05:18

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Thank you Doctor Marshall. That's my thought even though the vagus nerve's role helps explain some of the more troubling symptoms for patients. I see the paper as just one more step to understanding the sickness response more fully, but like most, the author hopes to prove that THIS is the whole story even as he acknowledges that THAT can be triggered by a host of pathogens.



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Dec 2006, Olmesartan break Feb - April 2007, ME/Fibro/PTSD/MCS/Hypermobility (since childhood; disabled 2003); 25D summer 2012 <4 (meaning unable to detect)
Lee
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 Posted: Tue Jun 25th, 2013 13:48

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Would this mean that the studies about neck injuries and CFS are on the same page with the vagus nerve studies?  TIA!  Lee



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Tue Jun 25th, 2013 17:04

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There are a lot of neural lymph nodes in the neck area, Lee. They typically are inflamed in Th1 disease.

Malcolm Jackson
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 Posted: Fri Jul 5th, 2013 11:07

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Is this a sign that science is getting the right idea?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1075996413000929



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Jul 5th, 2013 11:23

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They still haven't got three main issues

1. The human innate immune response is suppressed in disease
2. Changes in the endogenous antimicrobials may well be causative for the flora change, and not the other way around
3. The intra-phagocytic microbiota is key

If a probiotics could help disease, then Danone would have found it during all their testing in France these last five years :) But they reported (at the Paris HMC conference last year) that they were not close to any therapy which worked in any disease :)
 
 
ps: Thanks for this paper - it will help me write the abstract I am composing for the next HMC :)
 

Rico
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 Posted: Fri Jul 5th, 2013 13:44

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And Vitamin D supplementation contributing to chronic disease?



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Jul 5th, 2013 13:46

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Oh, Rico, that will the very last thing they understand...

Verena
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 Posted: Sat Jul 6th, 2013 13:07

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eClaire wrote
I came across this, which I do not think is incompatible with the MP in terms of the causes of ME/CFS. And I wanted to know people's thoughts. (It wouldn't change my reasons for being on the MP, as I want my body to knock out whatever is setting off the cascade of symptoms.)

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2013/06/23/vanelzakker-vnih-cfs-in-press/

 
Claire, I have no "thoughts" about the paper but an anecdote to tell. Three months before I had the first MS attac, I had an operation on my throad and a tumor removed. They needed to scratch that tumor off some nerves and one of those nerves was the left nervus vagus. That left side is the side, where I had most of the problems, the spastic cramps etc.

Might still be coincidence :?



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*1973, Migraine s. 1976, Eye Inflammation 1992 - 2011, Multiple Sclerosis s. 2007, MP 10/09 - 05/15, Restart 10/15

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