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The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > Fat cells express Cathelicidin, protect against microbes


Fat cells express Cathelicidin, protect against microbes
 Moderated by: Prof Trevor Marshall
 

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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Fri Jan 2nd, 2015 05:57

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Interesting new paper from UCSD. Here are some quotes from the Science Daily article:
"Further tests confirmed that human adipocytes also produce cathelicidin, suggesting the immune response is similar in both rodents and humans. Interestingly, obese subjects were observed to have more CAMP in their blood than subjects of normal weight."

"fat cells produced high levels of an antimicrobial peptide (AMP) called cathelicidin antimicrobial peptide or CAMP. AMPs are molecules used by the innate immune response to directly kill invasive bacteria, viruses, fungi and other pathogens."
But of course, the researchers are still hampered bythe way their clinical mentors view disease processes as due to some autoimmune body dysfunction, rather than a persistent microbiome:
However, in humans it is becoming increasingly clear that the presence of AMPs can be a double-edged sword, particularly for CAMP. Too little CAMP and people experience frequent infections. The best example is atopic eczema (a type of recurring, itchy skin disorder). These patients can experience frequent Staph and viral infections. But too much CAMP is also bad. Evidence suggests excess CAMP can drive autoimmune and other inflammatory diseases like lupus, psoriasis and rosacea
The original paper is at: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6217/67

Note that this discovery does not mean that people deficient in fat will necessarily be more subject to infection, as cathelicidin is a localized antimicrobial. What it does tell us is that Adipocytes (fat cells) produce cathelicidin as a defense. I frequently point out that my own studies have shown that all nucleated cells will produce antimicrobial peptides, as all nucleated cells are targets of the persistent microbiome.

..Trevor..

mvanwink5
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 Posted: Fri Jan 2nd, 2015 07:21

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Yes, the logic seems to be that police are always found at crime scenes therefore police cause crime. Really absurd logic results in really absurd conclusions.



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seanlane
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 Posted: Fri Jan 2nd, 2015 19:38

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Can Olmesartan produce too many CAMP over a long duration?

Last edited on Fri Jan 2nd, 2015 19:38 by seanlane



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wrotek
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 06:17

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seanlane wrote:
Can Olmesartan produce too many CAMP over a long duration?

I wonder if too much CAMP can make person feel bad directly from affecting body functions, now through herx.



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Cynthia S
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 09:17

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Can we guess that gaining weight once on the MP is immune activity in the fat cells causing inflammation and water gain in those fat cells and not an increase in the number of fat cells?

I am hoping to eventually lose these extra 35 pounds that I gained on the MP, and that re-adherence to a low carbohydrate regimen is not working at all to reduce them, but is stopping an additional increase that started a few months ago.  I would love to hear of an early adopter that had this weight gain issue after starting the MP, and how many years it took for the body to finally shed this increased weight.  I am 6 years into the MP now, and there is no sign of a resolution of the weight gain yet.

Cynthia

OK, I should have read the article first before writing the above.  Both the size AND number of fat cells increase at the site of infection.  So, if there is a mechanism of increasing the number of fat cells, there must be a mechanism of reducing the number after the infection is gone, I hope.  If this is a one way increase in the fat cells, I am doomed. 

Last edited on Sun Jan 4th, 2015 09:30 by Cynthia S



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mvanwink5
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 Posted: Sun Jan 4th, 2015 13:59

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Fat cells will convert to brown fat cells (recent article somewhere).



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David_in_UK
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 Posted: Tue Jan 6th, 2015 06:13

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Cynthia S wrote:
Can we guess that gaining weight once on the MP is immune activity in the fat cells causing inflammation and water gain in those fat cells and not an increase in the number of fat cells?

I am hoping to eventually lose these extra 35 pounds that I gained on the MP, and that re-adherence to a low carbohydrate regimen is not working at all to reduce them, but is stopping an additional increase that started a few months ago.  I would love to hear of an early adopter that had this weight gain issue after starting the MP, and how many years it took for the body to finally shed this increased weight.  I am 6 years into the MP now, and there is no sign of a resolution of the weight gain yet.

Cynthia

OK, I should have read the article first before writing the above.  Both the size AND number of fat cells increase at the site of infection.  So, if there is a mechanism of increasing the number of fat cells, there must be a mechanism of reducing the number after the infection is gone, I hope.  If this is a one way increase in the fat cells, I am doomed. 



Hi Cynthia,

I've had avery different experience from you - one that's hard to make sense of in the light of what is being discussed.

For the first year and a bit of the MP I too gained a fair bit of weight. But for the last year and a bit I've lost it all and gone well beyond, back to the weight I was at the age of 21. This hasn't been through any great effort on my part. I have done some very low carb eating at times but mostly it's been digestive problems, indigestion and loss of appetite that's caused me to eat less. Even eating some carbs at the moment isn't putting it back on, so maybe it isn't just diet.

This weight loss hasn't really coincided with any particular level of IP. I was pretty active in the summer, but I'm now the worst I've been since starting the MP 32 months ago - still lots of digestive problems, fatigue, and a really bad bout of depression. Much as I like being thin, I'd swap a bit of that for easing of the depression.

I think it does make sense that fat is somehow mixed up in all this, but I don't think it can be simple.

At least I can prove to you that it is possible to lose weight on the MP. It's sort of 'just happened' to me and maybe can 'just happen' to you too.



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Cynthia S
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 Posted: Tue Jan 6th, 2015 18:42

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We have lots of members that start by losing weight, so I suspect it is a difference of what bacteria our fat cells are infected with, those that are very resistant to the early level of immunity or those that are very susceptible to a slightly improved immune system, and start immediately apoptosize (is there such a word?). 

Or maybe there are no bacteria to speak of in the fat cells, just bacteria near by and the fat cells, based on the above, grow in number and size as a protective reaction to try to eliminate the nearby bacteria.  I certainly have plenty of infection in my skin, as I have been treating a couple of moles with my homemade olmesartan cream for the past 4 months and the skin at the application site has been inflamed and crusty/itchy for all of the 4 months.

I've been overweight for a long time, so that may be why the resolution is taking so long for me.  Glad to see someone is getting a normalization of weight, but the digestive issues may mean that things are not really normalized, but just differently bad.  I seem to have a very healthy digestive system, knock on wood.

Cynthia



____________________
MP start 10/08,break 1/16 - 9/16, Spondylitis'97,early Diverticulosis'98,early AMD'08,Calcium anomaly'95,TypeII Diabetes(?)'02,Degenerative hip disease'12, 25D=10.8 May'18 (preMP 125D/25D=47/43) https://marshallprotocol.com/forum30/13911-2.html
eClaire
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 Posted: Thu Jan 8th, 2015 22:05

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I lost weight initially on the MP and finally was down to my weight at age 18 (dropping from about 146 to 120 pounds), eating whatever I wanted (still fairly low carb because I've always had to eat that way out of self defence).

After going through a stressful period the summer of 2012 and crashing, I put on 22 pounds (having nothing to do with diet because that did not change) and cannot shake it. It doesn't matter what I do. Of course, it's been a very stressful time since then with my moving to N. Ireland and all of the work and adjustments required in a transatlantic and cultural move.

Last edited on Thu Jan 8th, 2015 22:08 by eClaire



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Joyful
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 Posted: Mon Jan 12th, 2015 14:36

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Oh Claire,
Things have been hard for you for a long time. :(

Stress, inflammation, and weight gain seem to all show up for the same parties.
Teasing out the cause/effect is not as easy.



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Prof Trevor Marshall
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14th, 2015 20:55

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Yes, indeed. I have been through the transcultural and transpacific stuff myself. Many moons ago. Trust me, there is life, good life, after it :) :)


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