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The Marshall Protocol Study Site > PROF. MARSHALL'S PERSPECTIVE > Prof. Marshall's Perspective > Chlorogenic Acid in Coffee is powerful Immune modulator


Chlorogenic Acid in Coffee is powerful Immune modulator
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wrotek
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2013 03:22

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Nondairy Creamer, but Not Milk, Delays the Appearance of Coffee Phenolic Acid Equivalents in Human Plasma1,2

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/140/2/259.full



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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2013 08:52

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Dr M, I'm just not sure I want to put either butter or cheese into my coffee! :? ;) :shock:



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seanlane
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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2013 19:42

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I tried baking soda....made it taste like ....well ..better not to say...but maybe alkaline water would neutralize some of the acid?



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 Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2013 09:21

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Eliminating coffee is not easy, to be sure.

Hot water with a generous teaspoon of cocoa sometimes helps me. 

Or sometimes I drink 2 oz. of coffee mixed with hot water.  That gives me a kick, although I am ingesting a small amount of the forbidden drink.  Sigh...

Sherry



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Lee
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 Posted: Tue Feb 26th, 2013 09:46

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I pretty much quit coffee by adding weak black tea with a splash of half and half (D-free) the way I drank my coffee.  I feel much MUCH better and when I do add a short cup of decaf coffee on the weekend I sure notice my lymph nodes increase and HURT! !!!  Lee



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wrotek
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 Posted: Sun May 5th, 2013 08:23

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Coffee contains a number of organic acids that affect blood sugar and cortisol levels.  This is not due to the caffeine.  For example, you can drink a cup of decaffeinated coffee at 8am and your cortisol levels will still be measurable at 10pm-the same as if you had drunk regular coffee.

http://www.dailyperricone.com/2010/03/cortisol-the-death-hormone/



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eClaire
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 Posted: Sun May 5th, 2013 16:15

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That doesn't tell me anything. I read research that says it raises cortisol and so I started drinking a cup in the morning to mimic nature. People with ME/CFS usually don't get raised cortisol until at night, which contributes to not being able to sleep. I now sleep at night (not always well...okay, never well, but better) because of a cup of coffee in the morning.



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wrotek
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 Posted: Sun May 5th, 2013 22:07

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Well this post of mine lacked scientific reference, but I posted it because an author is MD.

Last edited on Sun May 5th, 2013 22:07 by wrotek



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eClaire
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 Posted: Mon May 6th, 2013 03:57

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Didn't mean to be short with you. This topic is so confusing for me. Because I just recently started drinking coffee regularly (a year ago) and that research I read made sense of why my sleep improved. My sleep was improving slowly on the MP, but after six years, I was feeling pretty desperate for sleep and to break the pattern of sleeping after 2 am and sometimes as late as 8 am. The sleep I get in the night seems to be better. So I can't tell if I am doing something good for my body or if like others suggest, I ought to not drink coffee. So far, the sleep is winning out.



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wrotek
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 Posted: Mon May 6th, 2013 05:06

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Yeah well coffee is complex substance.


I just found this experience about that it is not only caffeine giving  the buzz...


http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=80287
I'm a daily coffee user, and have been for years. I roll out of bed, barely conscious, stumble downstairs, and guzzle a cup. Within an instant I turn from night-of-the-living-dead-extra to nine-year-old-on-120mg-of-Adderall. WITHOUT FAIL. I only need a cup or two (small dose considering my size) and it keeps me wide awake all day long. WITHOUT FAIL. Like a normal human being, I assumed that it was the caffeine in the coffee which kicked my mind into overdrive and kept me so chipper for a day's work. How very wrong I was. Last weekend, I went to a family reunion, where we woke up markedly earlier than I normally do on both mornings. As usual, I was barely able to open my eyes or walk before I had a cup of coffee. After that, I was wide awake and ready to go waterskiing in a frigid lake at 8:30 (when I usually wake up). Great coffee, huh? Well, I found out when we were leaving that that wasn't no coffee. It was straight up decaf. Decaf. As in de-caffeinated. No caffeine. None. WHAT THE HELL?! Before now I was only a mild believer in the placebo effect or psychological highs, but after an experience like that, I've had an about-face.
An experience of coffee counteracting benzodiazepine(lorazepam) actions
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=61768

I recently attempted suicide and failed, and ended up in the psych ward. I have bad anxiety and it was worse there so I was on ativan 3 times daily, but it was quite ineffective.

One evening I forgot to order my usual cup of coffee with dinner, and my ativan actually worked. So I tried not having my morning coffee with my ativan and the ativan worked again.

The caffeine was making it ineffective. So if anyone reading this is having problems with anxiety and their benzo isn't working, try getting off of caffeine.

Last edited on Mon May 6th, 2013 05:13 by wrotek



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 Posted: Mon May 6th, 2013 08:56

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Claire,

A number of early adopters of the MP managed to work through the protocol by drinking that one cup of morning coffee. Even now some are posting that in their progress updates.

That cortisol connection is interesting.

When I have reached my tolerance for activity and still need to function a hot cup of hot chocolate or decaf coffee will "miraculously" restore me to sanity long enough to get through the event (3-4 hours). Once that wears off I had been be in a dark quiet place to rest and recover of I'm going to really be miserable.



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 Posted: Mon May 6th, 2013 15:00

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Ditto, Joyful.  eClaire, coffee has saved my bacon on at least two occasions.  The payment for the boost is rest and recoop.



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2013 00:49

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Joyful, i suspect that decaf is even stronger than caffeinated tea, in terms of stimulation.



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 Posted: Tue May 7th, 2013 12:55

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:shock:  :shock:  :shock:



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 Posted: Wed May 8th, 2013 06:59

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Portions of this article were also helpful with regard to the caffeine vs. decaf discussion:

:The caffeine content in regular coffee is around 40 to 150 mg per 5 ounce cup and it varies depending upon the type of coffee beans used, the place of its cultivation and the time of its harvest.

Decaffeinated coffee is made by steaming unroasted coffee beans and then rinsing them in some sort of solvent, which extracts the caffeine from the beans. This decaffeinated coffee process is done for 8 to 12 cycles, until most of the caffeine has been extracted from the coffee beans. There are six methods of removing caffeine from coffee of which the triglyceride process and the Carbon dioxide process is more widely used. So, is there any caffeine in decaffeinated coffee? The answer is yes, there is. In spite of these processes to remove caffeine, it is still present in coffee, although in much smaller amounts than regular coffee. What is the amount of caffeine content in decaffeinated coffee? Decaffeinated coffee contains around 2 to 5 mg of caffeine, which is a very small amount. However, if you drink 8 to 10 cups of decaffeinated coffee a day, the caffeine content will add up to a regular cup of coffee.

But decaffeinated coffee does not mean caffeine free. It still has some caffeine and the amount of caffeine content might vary from brand to brand. Some brands of decaffeinated coffee has as much as 8 to 10 mg of caffeine content."

wrotek
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 Posted: Mon May 13th, 2013 21:54

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(Sorry i gave wrong link before)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22905922
http://www.nutritionj.com/content/11/1/56

Tea and coffee consumption in relation to vitamin D and calcium levels in Saudi adolescents.

Al-Othman A, Al-Musharaf S, Al-Daghri NM, Yakout S, Alkharfy KM, Al-Saleh Y, Al-Attas OS, Alokail MS, Moharram O, Sabico S, Kumar S, Chrousos GP.SourcePrince Mutaib Chair for Biomarkers of Osteoporosis, King Saud University, Riyadh, KSA. AbstractBACKGROUND:

Coffee and tea consumption was hypothesized to interact with variants of vitamin D-receptor polymorphisms, but limited evidence exists. Here we determine for the first time whether increased coffee and tea consumption affects circulating levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D in a cohort of Saudi adolescents. METHODS: A total of 330 randomly selected Saudi adolescents were included. Anthropometrics were recorded and fasting blood samples were analyzed for routine analysis of fasting glucose, lipid levels, calcium, albumin and phosphorous. Frequency of coffee and tea intake was noted. 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels were measured using enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays. RESULTS: Improved lipid profiles were observed in both boys and girls, as demonstrated by increased levels of HDL-cholesterol, even after controlling for age and BMI, among those consuming 9-12 cups of coffee/week. Vitamin D levels were significantly highest among those consuming 9-12 cups of tea/week in all subjects (p-value 0.009) independent of age, gender, BMI, physical activity and sun exposure. CONCLUSION: This study suggests a link between tea consumption and vitamin D levels in a cohort of Saudi adolescents, independent of age, BMI, gender, physical activity and sun exposure. These findings should be confirmed prospectively.


Last edited on Tue May 14th, 2013 02:51 by wrotek



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Nick B.
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 Posted: Tue May 14th, 2013 15:46

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Hi

Based on this research (above), does that mean that TEA is now on the list of substances NOT to be taken as well ? :(

Nick

Last edited on Tue May 14th, 2013 15:47 by Nick B.



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 Posted: Tue May 14th, 2013 17:44

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I know there are good reasons to avoid coffee, but will confess to having resumed a small morning cup plus (on workdays) another 12 ounces in a thermos, for about the past year.  My latest 25,D reading is a nice low 5 (US; I'm not skilled at conversion to the other units of measurement).  So for me, at least the coffee is not raising my D.



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 Posted: Tue May 14th, 2013 22:22

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Based on those figures I would say that what they are calling "statistically significant" is not very significant at all.

For Tea, the significance was unconvincing as it was the same for the group drinking the most and the group drinking the least.

For Coffee the difference of ~4nmol/l doesn't really impress me because it seems to me that within our cohort that isn't really a big change when you are in that range.

The most interesting detail from this study is that for a "330 randomly selected Saudi adolescents" the average 25D level is so ---low--- compared to our heavily supplemented populations in the US and other regions.

At 24.2 nmol/l, that converts to 9.68 ng/ml of 25D.

Quest labs in the past told someone (Joyce Waterhouse?) that when the numbers get below 10ng/ml the range of results from the same sample can vary quite a bit.


I don't think that Tea or Coffee is going raise your 25D. However, it will have other effects. And as Dody pointed out, some members are still finding it helps to function when you need to keep a job.

Last edited on Tue May 14th, 2013 22:25 by Joyful



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 Posted: Wed May 15th, 2013 00:17

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Joyful

You make some interesting comments, but I think you may of got your labels confused.

    For Tea, the significance was unconvincing as it was the same for the group drinking the most and the group drinking the least.

I think this was actually for the cofee drinkers.

I also am curious, as to why, if one group is consuming 3 x as much coffee, as another group, there is not linear increase of Vitamin D ?

I also wounder why they did not control the diet, and types of tea and coffee.

In fact the reseachers, seems to hint at this issue, after the fact. See this quote from near the end of the report:

The study has limitations. Comprehensive data on outdoor physical activity and diet were lacking, and these can be considered major confounders that affect circulating vitamin D levels. The type of coffee and tea were also not taken into consideration. Nevertheless, the number of subjects involved increases the reliability of our results, which shows for the first time a dose-dependent relationship between circulating vitamin D levels in relation to coffee and tea consumption among Saudi adolescents, even after adjustment for physical activity, sun exposure, gender, age and BMI.

Nick



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